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 Post subject: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:49 pm 
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Walnut
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First name: Matthew
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City: sullivan
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Which OOO or OM kit sounds better, the Martin or the Stew Mac? Also, do they have the same bracing?


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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:19 pm 
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mreed wrote:
Which OOO or OM kit sounds better, the Martin or the Stew Mac? Also, do they have the same bracing?

#1 Depends entirely on how you assemble it. #2 refer to #1 duh


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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:16 pm 
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Location: Windsor Ontario Canada
First name: Fred
Last Name: Tellier
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The StewMac is a 000 12 fret neck and the Martin OM is a 14 fret neck so completely different bodies. As for sound it will be what you create with the woods they provide. Martin instructions are very minimal and the StewMac much better, in fact you can view a PDF file of the instructions from their web site.

Fred

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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:57 am 
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Koa
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mreed wrote:
Which OOO or OM kit sounds better, the Martin or the Stew Mac? Also, do they have the same bracing?


The StewMac 000 is a 12 fret long scale small body which you can buy in either mahogany or rosewood (and either a dovetail or bolted neck). The plans call for 5/16 scalloped bracing. It is a slot head.

Don't know what Martin is selling for their OM kit but I would have to assume that it is 14 frets, long scale, and probably 1/4 bracing. It will be a paddle head. The body dimenstions are slightly different.

As Fred says, the Martin instructions are almost worthless - down load the SM pdf and if you are going to build an OM, find some good OM plans (there are several available). I would also suggest going to a good music store and playing both 000 and OM's in the body woods of your choice. Then all you can do is hope to make one that sounds as good.

From the UMGF FAQ http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.y ... /000-vs-OM

ps - consider building a bolt on for your first. A dovetail is an elegant joint, but a subject of much frustration for a first time builder.

In this picture, the guitar on the left is a 12 string OM body, the one on the right is a 6 string long scale 000

Image


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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:37 pm 
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From what I have read, if you don't use hide glue to assemble your guitar, it will sound like garbage. ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:35 pm 
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Walnut
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First name: Matthew
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I love the look of the long scale OOO...I need 14 frets, but love that OOO parlor look. I also love the OM and am wondering if this might be the best way to get that look with more mid-range and dare I hope, bass. Also, the slotted peghead is a must...that is just beautiful!
Cheers
Matthew


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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 6:06 pm 
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Koa
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mreed wrote:
I love the look of the long scale OOO...I need 14 frets, but love that OOO parlor look. I also love the OM and am wondering if this might be the best way to get that look with more mid-range and dare I hope, bass. Also, the slotted peghead is a must...that is just beautiful!
Cheers
Matthew


OK,well technically the OM is pretty well defined - 14 frets, the shoulders are pushed down to 14, 1-3/4 nut, long scale. 000 (that is triple ought as in wire size or buck shot) come in both 12 and 14 frets - the latter is basically a short scale OM See the UMGF link that I gave you above). A parlor is something else again - usually a single 0 or smaller - usually really short scale. I built one for my daughter - here it is with the previous two

Image

And, for what it is worth, I am pretty happy with just 12 frets clear (and I play a lot of bottleneck at that point of the neck)


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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:57 pm 
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Walnut
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First name: Matthew
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Amazing! Those are absolutely beautiful! Man, you are good.


Freeman wrote:
mreed wrote:
I love the look of the long scale OOO...I need 14 frets, but love that OOO parlor look. I also love the OM and am wondering if this might be the best way to get that look with more mid-range and dare I hope, bass. Also, the slotted peghead is a must...that is just beautiful!
Cheers
Matthew


OK,well technically the OM is pretty well defined - 14 frets, the shoulders are pushed down to 14, 1-3/4 nut, long scale. 000 (that is triple ought as in wire size or buck shot) come in both 12 and 14 frets - the latter is basically a short scale OM See the UMGF link that I gave you above). A parlor is something else again - usually a single 0 or smaller - usually really short scale. I built one for my daughter - here it is with the previous two

Image

And, for what it is worth, I am pretty happy with just 12 frets clear (and I play a lot of bottleneck at that point of the neck)


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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:11 pm 
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Koa
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Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
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First name: Freeman
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Those were all built from kits - the 000 was my first and was from Steve Kovacik, however it is very similar to the StewMac kit. SM are very good quality but you are limited to just what they sell - two sizes (dread and 000), two woods (rose and mahogay) and two neck joints. You can't customize the kits at all (of course you could substitue different binding or headplates or whatever). Whatever you do, you should download their instructions just for reference.

The OM 12 string was from John Hall (Blues Creek guitars) - it is basically a Martin 12 string neck and bridge and John bent the OM sides for me. I did style 41 trim (abalone around the soundhole and body) - John was a big help with that. He is a sponsor of this forum and a great guy to work with.

The little parlor is an LMI kit using their kit wizzard. The wizzard allows you to customize (and spend more money) - it is modeled after the guitar Joan Baez played with style 41 trim and some special inlay for my little girl. Go to the LMI website and find the kit wizzard - just be careful since every little change cost money LOL

Image

The other kits that I have built were an LMI classical and a Siminoff mandolin. Since then I have been pretty much scratch building, but kits are a great way to get started.


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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:46 pm
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First name: Matthew
Last Name: Wehrle
City: sullivan
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Zip/Postal Code: 61951
Country: united states
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Do you, by any chance, know what the deal with the guy who was selling the Martin kits cheap? I called him and left a message, sent emails and haven't heard back. Didn't know if anyone's heard anything?


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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:59 pm 
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First name: Fred
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Quote:
I think it is valuable to build the first guitar with a minimal practical investment in Luthiery specific tools.


I agree I started with a Martin kit and used the tools that I had and made a few jigs. Mostly my drill press and a dremel.

Fred

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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:52 pm 
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Don't forget what can be one of the most valuable resources during your first builds: If you can find a luthier (often cleverly disguised a repairmen) who isn't terribly far away from you... Take some time to try to get to know him/her. There is no shortage of knowledge or experience on this forum, but having someone who can physically help from time to time is invaluable. While most have busy schedules, if they can make time to help they generally will because they have been in your shoes.

I'm certain that many first time builders have made it through on their own or with the assistance of OLF. I am also certain they would have finished their first build with fewer gray hairs and achieved a better end result by finding a local mentor as well.


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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:48 am 
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mreed wrote:
Do you, by any chance, know what the deal with the guy who was selling the Martin kits cheap? I called him and left a message, sent emails and haven't heard back. Didn't know if anyone's heard anything?

I actually just texted back and forth with him a little bit ago. Real good guy and very generous and easy to work with.


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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:54 am 
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If forced to choose between those two, I would go with Stew-Mac. Martin doesn't set out to build "kits," they take a part (or parts) that have failed to meet their criteria in some way and bundle them with the rest of the items one needs to complete a guitar. I've had problems with various items purchased from Martin and while they have always readily sent me a replacement, in my opinion it's not an optimal starting point, especially for a beginner. Stew-Mac is not infallible, but they create and sell parts and kits purposely, not as an afterthought. I find a subtle but tangible difference between these two approaches.

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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:49 pm 
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Walnut
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:46 pm
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First name: Matthew
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Country: united states
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Jeffrodite: I keep hearing he's a good guy and I believe it, I just can't figure out why he wouldn't get back w/ me. It's not a big deal, just kinda strange.


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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:51 pm 
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Walnut
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George: I've heard the Stew-Mac kits have better "instructions" and are on a whole easier than Martins, too.


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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:52 pm 
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First name: Steve
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mreed wrote:
Jeffrodite: I keep hearing he's a good guy and I believe it, I just can't figure out why he wouldn't get back w/ me. It's not a big deal, just kinda strange.

Maybe ur theory is correct, that u are being ignored :D just kidding man. WhAt email do I have for him?


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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:42 pm 
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Walnut
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:46 pm
Posts: 19
First name: Matthew
Last Name: Wehrle
City: sullivan
State: il
Zip/Postal Code: 61951
Country: united states
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
The email I have is : spellboxer@yahoo.com and the phone number I got off his website. 513 207 5120


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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:48 am 
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First name: Steve
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Country: USA
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Status: Amateur
What r u looking for?


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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:32 pm 
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I'm pretty sure he wants a kit! :-)

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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:53 pm 
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Really? Who'd a thunk....


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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:00 pm 
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jeffrodite wrote:
Really? Who'd a thunk....


Well I am pretty astute, so I pick up on things that others might miss. Happy to help! laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe

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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:11 pm 
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mreed wrote:
George: I've heard the Stew-Mac kits have better "instructions" and are on a whole easier than Martins, too.


You can buy just about any serviced acoustic guitar kit and still use the stewmac instructions as they are on line as a PDF. I liked kits from John Hall and LMI. The Stew Mac kit is good but not a lot of wood options.

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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:07 am 
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Koa
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johnparchem wrote:
mreed wrote:
George: I've heard the Stew-Mac kits have better "instructions" and are on a whole easier than Martins, too.


You can buy just about any serviced acoustic guitar kit and still use the stewmac instructions as they are on line as a PDF. I liked kits from John Hall and LMI. The Stew Mac kit is good but not a lot of wood options.


StewMac also suggests using an internal cardboard mold. I think most of us would agree that making (or buying) an external mold is probably better. John Hall has put together a bunch of great videos on various steps of the build that are worth looking at and of course there are lots of build threads on the internet (both the original and new Kit Guitar Forums are good places to start).

http://www.kitguitarsforum.com/board/index.php

http://www.kitguitarsforum.com/archives/index.php

A suggestion I would make to the original poster is to do as much research as possible before he buys anything - Cumpiano and Kinkead's books, the SM pdf's, building blogs and threads.


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 Post subject: Re: better sounding kit
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:09 pm 
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Walnut
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:46 pm
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Exactly! I'm trying to do as much research as possible, and you guys know your stuff. As far as what I'm looking for, I want a OOO or OM kit. I would LOVE to have the 3-piece back, but haven't seen one come w/a kit. As far as wood; mahogany or rosewood back and sides, and red or engleman spruce top. However, I would like to ask if any of you have any experience w/cedar tops. I know they use them on some classicals, but how would they sound on a steel string.


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