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 Post subject: Cheaper than scratch?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:18 am 
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Cocobolo
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:?: How can this be? I was going to build my first one from scratch. I have previous experience building F5 mandolins from scratch but it appears I can get the same materials with most of the grunt work done for less. Am I not looking in the right places for materials?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:45 pm 
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Which materials for which instrument?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:32 pm 
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Sorry about that. oops_sign I want to build an HD28 guitar or something that might at least sound like one. I intend to dress up the head stock and fretboard a little. I want to stick with the traditional materials though. Rosewood back and sides, mahogany neck and spruce top.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:41 pm 
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I'm still confused about your issue. Are you saying you can't find a neck blank, a top, or a rosewood back and side set?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:58 pm 
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I can find all the parts and blocks of wood I need separately but They tend to add up to more than I would spend on kit using the same materials and a lot of the bending and shaping all done. Seems like it should be more expensive to buy a kit like this but it doesn't seem to be. Just not sure why I would build from scratch other than the satisfaction of saying I did or if I needed to build a totally custom guitar. I'm fairly confident I could do it with no problem but there would have to be a reason and that reason, I would think, would be to save money. But this is not the case based on my searches so far. I just think it's weird.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:05 pm 
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Might not be all that weird. A tonewood dealer selling you a B&S set needs to make his end on the B&S set. Someone selling you a more expensive whole kit might be willing to take a bit less on each component, even with any rough work involved. Just proves...pays to shop!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:32 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Set yourself up as a business, become an Allparts (or similar company) dealer, and save money on hardware and components, or for REAL savings, buy directly from the manufacturer in bulk (1000 pieces or more at a time for a LOT less per part!) instead of a wholesaler.

Buy raw lumber at a lumber yard and resaw your own back and side sets, or for REAL savings, buy tens of thousands of board feet at a time directly from sawmills and dry and resaw the logs yourself for substantial savings!

You may end up with the equivelent of ten ( or several thousand) guitar kits, but you will pay much less per kit, and will be able to make do your own woodwork.

Then you can sell the other nine (or thousands of) kits at a profit, and keep the one you want to work.

Essentially you will MAKE money building your guitar, instead of SPENDING money on a kit, but it will take some legwork on your part and an initial cost run-up of a a couple grand or tens of thousands of dollars, depending on how much you want to buy.

If you don't want to put together kits and sell them at a discounted kit price, you can sell the components individually and make more money, but the individual parts will sit around on your shelf longer, kits sell faster.

You could do both, offer both kits and individual components. People will save money on the kits, but if they don't want to buy a kit they can buy individual components, they'll just pay more for a component by itself than they would buying the same component in a kit.

You could also offer machining services on the individual components, but if they buy the kit you could throw in the machining for free.

OR..........

You can just buy a kit from LMII or Stew-Mac, since they've already done all this for you.
If you don't want to buy a kit from them, you can piece together the individual components, but you'll pay more per piece.

:D

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:56 pm 
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wow.......the guy is trying to build his first guitar and you have him buying from 10 to thousands of them........ :?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:47 am 
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I'm just saying, maybe one of these companies can offer the same bundles without the machining for a little less. I don't see why it isn't an option. They have the parts. I guess there just isn't much desire for it from the builder community.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:03 am 
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banjopicks wrote:
I'm just saying, maybe one of these companies can offer the same bundles without the machining for a little less. I don't see why it isn't an option. They have the parts. I guess there just isn't much desire for it from the builder community.


Banjo, Get in touch with John Hall from Blues Creek guitars. He has kits, and raw materials. He will work with you to put together a kit with as many of the parts serviced or unserviced as you like for a good price. He is a sponsor here. I have done business with him several times. Great guy and very helpful. He can also steer you to other vendors if he can not help you out and since he has been doing this for a while, he knows where to get the best prices most of the time. Tell him I sent ya.
http://bluescreekguitars.com/contact.php

Regards,

Tony

P.S. I know another guy who may do it as well, but I dont think he is a sponsor so I dont want to post a link since I dont know if that is Kosher or not.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:17 pm 
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Thanks Tony. When I'm ready to purchase the kit I'll give him a call and see what he has. I'm not so sure at this point which way I want to go and I have 2 F5 mandolins waiting for final sanding and finishing. Both built from scratch.

Tony_in_NYC wrote:
banjopicks wrote:
I'm just saying, maybe one of these companies can offer the same bundles without the machining for a little less. I don't see why it isn't an option. They have the parts. I guess there just isn't much desire for it from the builder community.


Banjo, Get in touch with John Hall from Blues Creek guitars. He has kits, and raw materials. He will work with you to put together a kit with as many of the parts serviced or unserviced as you like for a good price. He is a sponsor here. I have done business with him several times. Great guy and very helpful. He can also steer you to other vendors if he can not help you out and since he has been doing this for a while, he knows where to get the best prices most of the time. Tell him I sent ya.
http://bluescreekguitars.com/contact.php

Regards,

Tony

P.S. I know another guy who may do it as well, but I dont think he is a sponsor so I dont want to post a link since I dont know if that is Kosher or not.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:18 pm 
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it all depends on where the wood is coming from and who is building the kite... if its a Chinese kit like saga then its gonna be cheaper then the wood alone... i personally would shell out for wood and build from scratch rather then kit... its more fun :D


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:13 pm 
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banjopicks wrote:
I'm just saying, maybe one of these companies can offer the same bundles without the machining for a little less. I don't see why it isn't an option. They have the parts. I guess there just isn't much desire for it from the builder community.


Look a little more closely at the LMI offerings and you will find:
Steel String Guitar Kit, LMI Professional Unserviced, - Sitka Spruce, Indian Rosewood @ $390.20
Dreadnought Guitar Kit, Serviced, LMI Professional, - Sitka Spruce, Indian Rosewood @ $591.35
'Serviced'= Machining and bending done for you


As guitarwhisperer explained in his Economics 101 lesson, it 'should' always be cheaper to buy a 'kit' of parts than to assemble the materials yourself, unless you buy in quantity or resaw/machine the parts yourself.

banjopicks wrote:
Just not sure why I would build from scratch other than the satisfaction of saying I did or if I needed to build a totally custom guitar.


You got it 100% right. If you just want a guitar, it's probably cheapest to just buy one at the music store.

Cheers
John


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:58 am 
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"If you just want a guitar, it's probably cheapest to just buy one at the music store." No that wouldn't be me. Besides I have no doubt I can build a better one than I can buy for under 500.00. I may prove myself wrong oops_sign and I'm pretty sure I'll be building at least one more :D

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:24 am 
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BTW, I really am just looking for and instrument project that won't take too long. Quick and easy/ instant gratification for the next project and then I'll slow down again and build one from scratch. The F5s really took a long time. [uncle]

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:02 pm 
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Hutch-
A basic 'kit' is a good way to build a first guitar- that's how I did mine in 1976- box of wood (aka 'kit') from Lewis Luthier Supply. Quicker and cheaper than assembling the parts yourself.
And, I agree with you that if you already have all the tools you need, it's cheaper to build your own, than to buy a guitar. For a 'real beginner' with no tools, the economics are different. Of course, building is all the fun for me.

Cheers
John


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:04 am 
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I was just exploring the mind of a wholesaler, that's all, just trying to have a little fun.
:cry:

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:55 pm 
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Filippo Morelli wrote:
Yes. You'd be looking in the wrong places. I can buy parts to build a guitar cheaper than a kit any time. But we are talking little cost differences in the large. Having built two F5 mandolins, you don't even need to waste your time worrying about this. Just buy whatever raw stock suits your fancy and get building! :-)

Filippo


You're right and this is where I'm heading now. So I moved on up to the scratch guitar forum.

Just for the record, I'm finishing F5s #2 and#3. I should be putting the bursts on next week I hope. As soon as that's done it will be 10 or 20 minutes to spray a coat of lacquer and back in the house to start guitar building while I wait for the lacquer to dry. I'll probably start with the neck. They're the most fun.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 9:24 am 
Banjopicks,
You cannot go wrong dealing with John Hall. He puts his kits together himself, and he stands behind everything he sells. And I believe he is now part owner of this forum, and a sponsor. Kits are usually cheaper than scratch, it just depends on your needs. Do you have all the tools (Side Bender, forms, molds, etc.)? John also sells that stuff and very reasonable. Hey John! Do I get a kickback?
Mike R.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:19 am 
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Quote:
"I believe he (John Hall) is now part owner of this forum..."


I know John took over the Kit Guitar Forum from Bill Corey, but hadn't heard about his involvement here extending beyond sponsorship.

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