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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:16 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:28 am
Posts: 7
Hello all,

First time poster and first time builder.

I am a novice player that wanted to build my own guitar. So, I bought an Ammoon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01K1C82WY/ref=b2b_gw_d_simh_a3_0_p/163-7877431-8792145?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01K1C82WY&pd_rd_r=0YM0YTP8QWM6E1A30T64&pd_rd_w=MWNMN&pd_rd_wg=gxV9H&pf_rd_i=b2b-desktop&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0YM0YTP8QWM6E1A30T64&pf_rd_t=ABGateway&refRID=0YM0YTP8QWM6E1A30T64 guitar off Amazon. It's a nice kit to learn how to build even though it's a Floyd Rose bridge which is probably the worst first time guitar build option as far as bridges are concerned. Nonetheless, that's what I have chosen and that's what I'm working hard on making it work.

The problem is the bridge cavity is set too far back. Actually, let me back up a bit and be sure to note my n00bness to all this in the first place, so I may just be wrong in my assessments off the bat. I measured the nut to 12th fret (middle of fret) and it's 12.5. I then measured the 12th fret to bridge saddle and it's 13.5 roughly with the bridge positioned as far up the cavity as it can go. The bridge pickup cavity is too close to the bridge slot for me to rout out enough to get the bridge to measure up properly.

I have an open dialog with the seller right now and they are willing to work with me, but I came here to see if what I am doing is right in the first place and if my measurements need to be taken from different positions than the ones I laid out above. More specifically I measured from the neck side of the locking nut to the middle of the 12th fret. Then measured from the middle of the 12th fret to roughly where the most forward positioned bridge saddle could be positioned. I already drilled the bridge posts holes, but already understand that I will have to fill them in and re-drill those holes as they are about an 1/8 too far right.

A point I must clarify is where I positioned the bridge in the first place. I have watched some vids on this and believe I am right, but now I wonder. I drilled the bridge posts inside of the cavity. Am I supposed to drill the bridge posts in front of the cavity and that the bridge free floats in the cavity? I haven't actually tried that yet because I always assumed that would put the bridge too high and would not be able to get the action and intonation set properly.

I think I'll leave it at that for now. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:31 am 
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Contributing Member
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:17 am
Posts: 271
First name: Linus
City: Brooklyn
State: NY
Zip/Postal Code: 11215
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
The location of the high E bridge saddle should be the same distance nut to twelfth fret, twelfth fret to saddle.
The low E will be about 3/32" longer from 12th Fret to saddle to compensate for intonation but the travel distance of the saddles should be plenty to account for that.

If your measurements are correct and the bridge location is that far off, return the kit for a refund. It's not worth trying to correct someone else's mistake.



These users thanked the author Linus for the post: Geauxboy (Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:44 pm)
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:46 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:28 am
Posts: 7
I do have the feeling that I should get it replaced. The buyer wants a vid of what exactly is happening, so I'll make it tonight and send to them and wait for their response.

I see you're in Brooklyn. I'm in Queens.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:24 pm 
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Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:17 am
Posts: 271
First name: Linus
City: Brooklyn
State: NY
Zip/Postal Code: 11215
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hope it all sorts itself out. Perhaps they included the wrong neck (wrong scale length) with your kit.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:28 am
Posts: 7
I wondered that too, but the numbers matched up. The page doesn't list lengths either, so I'm not sure if I'll ever know what the specs are supposed to be. I guess I'll ask. Thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:50 pm 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:14 pm
Posts: 438
First name: Mike
Last Name: Imbler
City: Wichita
State: KS
Zip/Postal Code: 67204
Country: usa
Focus: Build
[quote="Geauxboy"]Hello all,

First time poster and first time builder.

I am a novice player that wanted to build my own guitar. So, I bought an Ammoon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01K1C82WY/ref=b2b_gw_d_simh_a3_0_p/163-7877431-8792145?ie=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01K1C82WY&pd_rd_r=0YM0YTP8QWM6E1A30T64&pd_rd_w=MWNMN&pd_rd_wg=gxV9H&pf_rd_i=b2b-desktop&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0YM0YTP8QWM6E1A30T64&pf_rd_t=ABGateway&refRID=0YM0YTP8QWM6E1A30T64 guitar off Amazon. It's a nice kit to learn how to build even though it's a Floyd Rose bridge which is probably the worst first time guitar build option as far as bridges are concerned. Nonetheless, that's what I have chosen and that's what I'm working hard on making it work.

If you look at the reviews on your amazon link above, one of them has a picture of a completed guitar. Maybe that will give you at least a partial answer of where they intend the bridge to go.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:00 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:28 am
Posts: 7
Actually, it was the finished guitar that sold me even though I am having a local artist paint it for me. The picture does not show any of the cavity which is either misleading or my body's cavity is WAY to big. Again, the space between the bridge cavity and the bridge pickup cavity will not fit the bridge so it is my understanding that there is no where else to position the bridge. I'll try to post a pic, but all pics are too big to post.



These users thanked the author Geauxboy for the post: Imbler (Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:33 am)
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:25 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 867
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Geauxboy, I ran the StewMac fret calculator for your guitar. With a 25.0 scale length (2 x 12.5). The say that "Distance indicated is from the fretboard edge of the nut to center of forward-most mounting screw or pivot post."

http://www.stewmac.com/FretCalculator

for an original Floyd should be 24.510 +/- 0.030.

for a Floyd II or a Shaller Floyd it should be 24.449 +/- 30

You might want to lay that out and see where the saddles end up.

My method is to always locate the bridge (whatever kind) with the farthest forward adjustment either at or a little past the scale length. I almost always add about 1/16 to the scale and locate it there. You will never go ahead of the scale length position when compensating the guitar and I like to have plenty of travel.

However, I recently installed a Kahler tremolo bridge for a customer and the instructions said to put the middle of the travel at the scale length point - they specifically said you should have 0.150 on either side. I called Mr Kahler and questioned him, he said that was to cover all the options. I asked if he had ever seen a guitar compensated ahead of the scale point, he admitted not. I put it as I always do (1/16 behind) and it intonated just fine. This isn't a very good picture, but it shows my home made routing jig in position on the guitar. There is a line that says "FWD", that is the forward most location of the saddles. I have placed that line 1/16 past the scale lenght. The jig is held on buy two of the mounting screws, that makes sure the bridge will be in the right location relative to the hole.

Image

It would help a lot to see a picture of yours

I'll add that in my humble opinion any "kit" should have really good instructions on setting all of the geometry stuff - if any of it is wrong the guitar simply won't work.



These users thanked the author Freeman for the post: Hesh (Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:28 am)
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:42 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:28 am
Posts: 7
Thanks a lot to all that have helped.

I'm trying to upload the pics, but it's coming up "invalid". So here's a vid instead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g7pZp- ... e=youtu.be


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:49 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 867
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
In your video it looks like the 12th fret is at 12-3/4 inch (not 12-1/2 as you reported earlier), that means the scale is 25.5, standard Fender scale. Running the SM fret calculator puts the stud at 25.0, I also looked in Dan Erlewine's book (he has a good description of installing a Floyd) and he agrees.

In your vid it looks like the studs are right at 25 which would jive with Erliewine's measurements. Can you do one other picture or video with the bridge roughly in place over those stud holes and measure to the saddles?

I think you might be OK


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:02 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:28 am
Posts: 7
I too noticed that I was off on my measurement. As soon as I get home, I'll post another vid with the bridge in place.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:59 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:28 am
Posts: 7
Here's another vid with the posts and bridge in place.

https://youtu.be/T3R98ETSYeY


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:47 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 867
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
What are the measurements from the nut to the break points of the saddles at their most forward and most rear position? I'm not familiar enough with Floyds but I think its those little grooves.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:30 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2017 11:51 am
Posts: 3
First name: Jyme
Last Name: Bale
City: Dickinson
State: Tx
Zip/Postal Code: 77539
Country: America
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hi, May be this will help, I was going to install a Schaller on an Explorer I built but NO instructions came with it at all, I had previously installed a tremolo on a Strat copy I built, neither from kits, I am not a noob, I've been building about 18 years now, mainly acoustics as I just can't afford them or much of any thing else. A bunch of bad car accidents, three, ended my work life and I'm on disability, my back is real messed up. So how can I even build, I do a lot of it flat on my back, I manage, and please do not feel sorry for me at all. I was on You Tube trying to find a video explaining how to install the Schaller or Floyd which are the same and did, the person was a pro electric builder and stated to measure from the nut and draw a vertical line on the body at 650 mm, that is millimeters but did not explain at all how he came up with the number. I did this but decided not to finish the guitar at the time. Some months later I started finishing it, adding the metal parts and then I measured the normal nut to the 12 th fret and on and the numbers did not match up at all. I thought what the hell and put some of the strings on and the guitar tuned up perfectly, I had not intonated it yet, I played it a bit and stopped. I had another Explorer and flying V I'd built, I did not buy plans for either I drew them my self from a big screen TV from pics I had down loaded of plans for them. The first Explorer bodies curves were not in 1968's place and so I made another, that is the one I'm using as a tremolo can really get in the dang way unless you just block it off and take the arm off and I like it's sound some times.......Back to the measurments, I wish I knew how the guy arrived at the 650mm, it works great for me and I've talked to other's who have had the same experience, hope this helps.


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