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 Post subject: HY VFD using Mach3
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:45 am 
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Cocobolo
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HI all,
I'm thinking about going to a spindle and VFD on my CNC. Im on my third router using superPID in the past 10years and many bearing changes. Tired of the noise as well. :)
First Water cooled or Air cooled Spindle?
Next anyone using an HY VFD with mach3? I'm thinking I can do this with an rs485 to usb converter and use brains in Mach to control speed and on/off? Hopefully this would eliminate the need for the HY plugin and netframe which I read is spotty at best? Or maybe a different VFD? Hitachi or Delta? Any help would great.

This is sort of what I am looking at. Suggestions please???

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B010GX4JKC/re ... LDWWRS056U

Thanks for any advice or help.
Mike

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 Post subject: Re: HY VFD using Mach3
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:02 pm 
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If noise is a concern, you'll want either an electric fan air cooled model or a water cooled spindle. Shaft mounted fan spindles aren't much quieter than routers.

I think they've gotten better but, the HY VFDs used to be total crap. Try to go for an upgrade there if you can.

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 Post subject: Re: HY VFD using Mach3
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:20 pm 
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Andy Birko wrote:
If noise is a concern, you'll want either an electric fan air cooled model or a water cooled spindle. Shaft mounted fan spindles aren't much quieter than routers.

I think they've gotten better but, the HY VFDs used to be total crap. Try to go for an upgrade there if you can.


Thanks Andy for the response. I am really looking at the Hitachi VFD instead of the HY after more research. I will also look into a water cooled spindle. They seem to cost less for some reason??? I know I will need a pump and hoses so that increases cost.
I'm trying to stay in the $500 range if possible?
Thanks again.
Mike

hitachi VFD Im looking at
https://www.wolfautomation.com/ac-drive ... ngle-phase

Water Cooled spindle:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B011971H90/re ... 5U3Q1ZKBMS

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 Post subject: Re: HY VFD using Mach3
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:39 pm 
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I Have a Hitachi WJ-200 on my machines and I can't complain at all. I don't have any experience with the model you're going for but it's probably nearly as good as the WJ, probably lacks some features or something.

The water cooled Chinese round body spindles were pretty bad before but they seem to have figured it out now as I haven't been reading many complaints about them. I'm using a Teknomotor spindle and I've had difficulties with them. They're about 4x the cost of the Chinese ones but I'm not sure it's worth it. 4 Cheap Chinese spindles could very well be > 1 Teknomotor at the same price.

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 Post subject: Re: HY VFD using Mach3
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:12 am 
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Thanks Andy,
The Hitachi I am looking at replaced the x200 I will add the optional pot and display. Also it has been successfully used with MAch3 So that is a plus for me. As for the spindle I understand. Again I have to watch my $$ at this time.
Again many thanks for your input, it is valued a lot. :)
Mike

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 Post subject: Re: HY VFD using Mach3
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:25 pm 
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I'm using the same Hitachi VFD you linked to Mike.

So far so good, though I haven't had many hours on my machine.

It works well with Mach3 and Mach4 and I'm using this C6 speed controller board to control the speed from Mach.


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 Post subject: Re: HY VFD using Mach3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:48 am 
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Durero wrote:
I'm using the same Hitachi VFD you linked to Mike.

So far so good, though I haven't had many hours on my machine.

It works well with Mach3 and Mach4 and I'm using this C6 speed controller board to control the speed from Mach.


Excellent!! :)
Thank you so much that is very reassuring. What is the minimum speed you are able to achieve? Since I am most likely going to go a water cooled spindle I would like to get the speed down to 500-1000rpm if possible for the occasional aluminum parts I make. Also I am assuming that you are using an ethernet cable from the C6 to the Hitachi without any rs485 converter?
Mike

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 Post subject: Re: HY VFD using Mach3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:56 am 
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OOPS Double post!!

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Last edited by Mike Kroening on Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: HY VFD using Mach3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:58 am 
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You'll never get down to 1000rpm - minimum will probably be around 8k but with no torque whatsoever. I don't run my spindles less than 12k ever. You can cut aluminum at 15k, you just need reasonable federates to do so.

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 Post subject: Re: HY VFD using Mach3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:03 am 
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Andy Birko wrote:
You'll never get down to 1000rpm - minimum will probably be around 8k but with no torque whatsoever. I don't run my spindles less than 12k ever. You can cut aluminum at 15k, you just need reasonable federates to do so.
Thanks Andy. I can get to 5k with my Super PID and it has worked fine but 8k is fine as well.. I can work with it. It would be nice to get lower though :)

I think this board would solve my problem of the 10VDC and not have to get the C6 as it is incorpartaed into the board.

C11GS - Multifunction CNC Board
https://cnc4pc.com/motion-control/break ... board.html

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 Post subject: Re: HY VFD using Mach3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:29 am 
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If you want to get lower, get a low speed spindle. At 8k, my spindle didn't have near enough torque to even drill through wood. It's highly unlikely that you'd get much done in aluminum at that speed.

The 10vDC comes from the inverter - there's an output pin already there. I actually have a C11GS for a second machine that I'm presently setting up with a UC100 for motion control, UCCNC for the controller itself. Seems like a decent BOB but I don't think it has a 10v power supply on there because it's not necessary.

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 Post subject: Re: HY VFD using Mach3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:35 am 
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Andy Birko wrote:
If you want to get lower, get a low speed spindle. At 8k, my spindle didn't have near enough torque to even drill through wood. It's highly unlikely that you'd get much done in aluminum at that speed.

The 10vDC comes from the inverter - there's an output pin already there. I actually have a C11GS for a second machine that I'm presently setting up with a UC100 for motion control, UCCNC for the controller itself. Seems like a decent BOB but I don't think it has a 10v power supply on there because it's not necessary.

You are such a wealth of knowledge Andy. :) Thanks
I understand what you are saying about the torque will look into it more.
Maybe I'm reading it wrong? here is a snippet from the C11 specs:
Built-in Variable Speed Control. It has an optoisolated analog 0- 10VDC output that will convert a PWM signal into an analog signal that can be used to command a commercial VFD. This analog can be adjusted using an on-board potentiometer, so this board can be adjusted to other voltages.


mk

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 Post subject: Re: HY VFD using Mach3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:45 am 
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The VFD 0~10v speed control has 3 pins on the inverter - +10v, GND and input. It's designed so you can wire it up directly to a potentiometer and use it for speed control.

Boards like the C10 or G540 or whatever need the GND and +10v as a reference to generate the output voltage for the control signal. I don't know the specifics of the guts of the C10 to do it but, it's probably just a transistor + some protection (probably opto-isolator on the base/gate) with the source/emitter hooked up to the +V rail and the collector/drain hooked up to GND with the base/gate hooked up to the PWM signal. That way you get accurate speed control irrespective of what the absolute max voltage is.

e.g. apparently some VFDs use 0~5v instead of 0~10v but that circuit will work accurately with either one. It's also very challenging to match DC voltages across different devices that don't necessarily share a ground. So you could for example have 5v coming out of the C11 but measured against the GND of the VFD it could be 8 or 3v or whatever - who knows. By sourcing the +ive rail and GND from the VFD, you're covered any way you slice it.

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 Post subject: Re: HY VFD using Mach3
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:50 am 
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Cool! Thanks again Andy.
MK

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 Post subject: Re: HY VFD using Mach3
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:09 am 
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I cannot believe the way people are now after this election. Woke up this morning to my cars and my neighbors cars all have flat tires. My neighbor had a Trump sign in the yard between our driveways. Really That POed and have to slash our tires? Hopefully there video will be able to be useful for the police.Now I have to replace tires. The set on my wife's is only 2 months old. My God what a load of crap I never put out signs to endorse anyone and some ass assumes I did?
So much for my upgrade at this time. Cars are already off to the tire shops on wreckers.Welcome to a new world????
Mike

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 Post subject: HY VFD using Mach3
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:11 pm 
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Mike Kroening wrote:
I cannot believe the way people are now after this election. Woke up this morning to my cars and my neighbors cars all have flat tires. My neighbor had a Trump sign in the yard between our driveways. Really That POed and have to slash our tires? Hopefully there video will be able to be useful for the police.Now I have to replace tires. The set on my wife's is only 2 months old. My God what a load of crap I never put out signs to endorse anyone and some ass assumes I did?
So much for my upgrade at this time. Cars are already off to the tire shops on wreckers.Welcome to a new world????
Mike


You think they slashed your tires because of a HY VFD?


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These users thanked the author rlrhett for the post: Mike Kroening (Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:56 pm)
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 Post subject: Re: HY VFD using Mach3
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:00 pm 
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rlrhett wrote:
Mike Kroening wrote:
I cannot believe the way people are now after this election. Woke up this morning to my cars and my neighbors cars all have flat tires. My neighbor had a Trump sign in the yard between our driveways. Really That POed and have to slash our tires? Hopefully there video will be able to be useful for the police.Now I have to replace tires. The set on my wife's is only 2 months old. My God what a load of crap I never put out signs to endorse anyone and some ass assumes I did?
So much for my upgrade at this time. Cars are already off to the tire shops on wreckers.Welcome to a new world????
Mike


You think they slashed your tires because of a HY VFD?


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Who knows LOL!!! Most likely the Trump Sign, evidently some others close ( a few blocks over) same thing happened. Man I hope they catch these people. I would love to (well never mind I need to be more Christian like )
mk

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 Post subject: Re: HY VFD using Mach3
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:25 pm 
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My mom was sitting on her front porch with a friend Wednesday having a coffee. Two men walked by and yelled at her:

"Trump won, f@$$ing Mexicans!!!!"

My mother's friend looks Hispanic. They are both ladies in their 70's.

Welcome, indeed.


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 Post subject: Re: HY VFD using Mach3
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:59 pm 
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rlrhett wrote:
My mom was sitting on her front porch with a friend Wednesday having a coffee. Two men walked by and yelled at her:

"Trump won, f@$$ing Mexicans!!!!"

My mother's friend looks Hispanic. They are both ladies in their 70's.

Welcome, indeed.


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Man that is totally F'ed up. [headinwall]

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