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| Laser cut MOP inlay http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10106&t=42992 |
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| Author: | dholzric [ Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Laser cut MOP inlay |
Anyone using a laser to cutout inlays? If so, any tips? How does it work. |
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| Author: | Sheldon Dingwall [ Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser cut MOP inlay |
From what I heard standard thickness pearl edges crumble when cut with a laser. I think you can cut veneers though. |
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| Author: | 87kevin [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser cut MOP inlay |
I'd love to hear some tips too. We've just got a laser and I love it! It does seem to char the edges. Inlays like blocks or trapezoids seem to work fine while inlays with pointy and thin bits dont work since the shell just crumbles on the thin parts. I'm sure veneer shell cuts no problem since the charring doesnt seem to happen at lower powers. -Kevin |
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| Author: | Ziegenfuss [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser cut MOP inlay |
I do not have a large amount of experience, as I only just recently got a laser at my day job. In initial test cuts, I was not able to cut through MOP with a 45 W CO2 laser. I was able to cut through abalam, however. While the abalam cut was not particularly amazing, with edge charring, and damage, I am sure with some additional practice and alteration to cut speed, passes, and laser power, I will be able to fine tune the use of the laser for abalam. Not much, I know, but a little bit of application knowledge to store away. |
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| Author: | Parser [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser cut MOP inlay |
I'm not aware of this being done in industry. I have seen some wood inlays cut with the laser (Martin played around with this). The inlay shops that I know of (Pearl Works and Aulson inlay) use high speed/low runout air spindles. I can't pinpoint why the laser is not used more often, but I suspect these pro's have a good reason for not doing so.... Trev |
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| Author: | klooker [ Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser cut MOP inlay |
viewtopic.php?f=10106&t=39093&hilit=laser I just got a laser too so I'm interested to hear more about how people are using them. Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | 87kevin [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser cut MOP inlay |
Headstock plates, wood inlay and celluloid inlays, acrylic templates to name a few uses. We go through heaps of celluloid inlays and this thing cuts them at least 3x as fast as the router without breaking a sweat. Also, there is no fancy fixturing or gluing of the inlay material to a substrate needed. I also plan on using it to cut nuts with a special fixture in the future. I'm early in the experimentation with real shell cutting, but like I said, it seems to be fine as long as there are no skinny or pointy bits. I'm blasting through at 35% power on an 80w laser. I'm curious if anyone is having luck with lower power and multiple passes. If so how many passes? I havent been able to make that work yet. -Kevin |
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| Author: | dholzric [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser cut MOP inlay |
I'll give it a try. My laser just arrived today but unfortunately the tube is broken at the water inlet tube so i'll have to wait on a replacement. 87kevin wrote: Headstock plates, wood inlay and celluloid inlays, acrylic templates to name a few uses. We go through heaps of celluloid inlays and this thing cuts them at least 3x as fast as the router without breaking a sweat. Also, there is no fancy fixturing or gluing of the inlay material to a substrate needed.
I also plan on using it to cut nuts with a special fixture in the future. I'm early in the experimentation with real shell cutting, but like I said, it seems to be fine as long as there are no skinny or pointy bits. I'm blasting through at 35% power on an 80w laser. I'm curious if anyone is having luck with lower power and multiple passes. If so how many passes? I havent been able to make that work yet. -Kevin |
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| Author: | klooker [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser cut MOP inlay |
Real celluloid? I thought there would be a problem with it catching fire. What type of laser do you have? Is it a Chinese machine (like I have) that only has speed & power. I'm just at the early experimentation stage with my machine. Thanks, Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | 87kevin [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser cut MOP inlay |
I'm also just experimenting although I've found many uses for it already. Just a chinese machine but a more expensive one with US support. Fingers crossed. Yep - real celluloid. At the power levels it takes to cut acrylic it melts but at really low power levels it cuts like a dream. It also catches fire on routers - dont ask me how I know  -Kevin |
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| Author: | Sheldon Dingwall [ Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser cut MOP inlay |
87kevin wrote: I'm also just experimenting although I've found many uses for it already. Just a chinese machine but a more expensive one with US support. Fingers crossed. Yep - real celluloid. At the power levels it takes to cut acrylic it melts but at really low power levels it cuts like a dream. It also catches fire on routers - dont ask me how I know -Kevin I have laser lust but don't see one in the cards for a while. Which one did you go with Kevin? |
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| Author: | Dave Fifield [ Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser cut MOP inlay |
The edges of thick (0.04 - 0.06") shell do not cut well on my Epilog 45W CO2 laser. They turn to a white powder. You can scrape the powder off the edges of the cut pieces, and they kind-of retain their original shape, but points are rounded and you will have to adjust the pocket size (make them smaller) for the smaller-than-expected pieces to fit in nicely. I've done several fretboard inlays with laser-cut shell now, but they don't look anywhere near as good as hand or CNC cut inlays. I'll try to dig out a couple of pictures later and add them to this thread. If you take the ultra-thin shell sheets (0.004 - 0.006" thick) and glue them to aircraft modeler's plywood, they cut very nicely on the laser. I've used this method quite a bit for head plate inlays (logos etc.). Hope this helps, Dave F. |
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| Author: | 87kevin [ Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser cut MOP inlay |
Sheldon, http://www.ebay.com/itm/CAMFive-cutter- ... 27d708b817 is very similar to the one we got except ours has the Z axis which I've come to learn is a waste of money since their software cant move that axis at all. Dave, I've had the same results as you describe with the shell. I havent tried the veneer shell yet. It would seem to me at that thickness that it's basically transparent? How do you make this work for logos? |
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| Author: | mirwa [ Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser cut MOP inlay |
Dont bother with the laser on MOP or abalone etc We have a 40 watt and a 100 watt laser, tried different speeds settings, even down to 30 passes at low power, in the end by the time you cut through the job, it is not good enough to be used as a commercial end product. You can use the laser to cut wood / plastics fake inlay etc, but real shell, nope you cant do it and have a suitable end product for inlaying into someones guitar Its as simple as that |
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| Author: | klooker [ Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser cut MOP inlay |
I bought a Shenhui SH-G1290 with 80 watt laser direct from China. It took forever to get the mirrors aligned but I learned a lot. I also learned a lot about the build quality and lack of quality control on these machines. On the other hand, if the machine lasts 5 years, which I think it will,it's an incredible bargain compared to the higher end machines, IMO. Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | klooker [ Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser cut MOP inlay |
Dave, If you get a chance I like to see some photos of your technique using the thin shell sheets & modeler's plywood. Do you permanently glue to the plywood then inlay the shell with the ply still on it? Thanks, Kevin Looekr |
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| Author: | Dave Fifield [ Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laser cut MOP inlay |
Hi Kevin and Kevin, I'll get a tutorial together in the next couple of weeks - I have to do some for a headstock inlay shortly. Yes, the super-thin shell is almost transparent, but I found a version (from inlayusa.com IIRC) that has a thin layer of black rubbery/plasticy backing on it that looks just like thick shell. Not cheap, but it lasers really well and looks great. I'll post my laser settings also if that'll help. The trick is to make a marquetry panel for the head plate and glue the shell/black plastic/aircraft ply sandwich pieces in (using medium thickness superglue) with the panel FACE DOWN on a very flat surface (with some waxed kitchen paper on it!). Before you glue the pieces in, lightly sand the face of the marquetry so that it's dead flat and ready for finish sanding. This makes sure that the super-thin shell face is dead flat level with the front of head plate, so that when you do the very light finish sanding (say 400 grit and up), you don't run the risk of sanding through the shell!! More later. Cheers, Dave F. Kevin, yes, I super-glue the thin shell with black backing onto the aircraft modeler's ply permanently, and inlay the cut pieces - everything's much more stable that way. |
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