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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:02 am 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:55 am
Posts: 55
Location: Kaboutersem
First name: Hilko
Last Name: Nackaerts
Country: Belgium
Focus: Build
Hiya All,
It's my first post here on this great forum, been reading learning a lot here past few years.
A friend who is a resonator/slide player asked me to build a "electric resonator" for him. He gave me "carte blanche" on this instrument, so I went for a hollow (mall)body design.
Don't know how it's gonna turn out, quite sure we'll hear it in the next few weeks (or months).
An electric resonator guitar always intrigued me and finally I've got an excuse to build one. :D
As this is my first reso-build I got a lot of questions and hoping you guys can help me out when needed.
Anyhow I'll post the progress of the build here in this thread.
Hope you enjoy it as much as I do.
Here we go:
Sides are bend in to shape
Image

Lets see how it's gonna look
Image

"Underneath the coverplate plate look"
Image

Glued the kerfing in
Image
Image

This "hoop" will be holding the cone biscuit cone. I'll be routing out a circle (9.5") to drop in the cone that will sit about 1" from the guitarbody top. (I've measured the depth on a national guitar)
Image

This is it for now, oh yeah... I'll be using a highlander pickup to amplify the resonator and a slightly microphonic P90 PU in neck position.
Anny suggestions/comments are welcome.
Cheers!
Hilko

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:47 am 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:55 am
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Location: Kaboutersem
First name: Hilko
Last Name: Nackaerts
Country: Belgium
Focus: Build
Just routed the cone cavity.
Image

It sits very nice in there.
Image

Time to make some supportive bracing and glue them in so we can fit the top on tomorrow...

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:24 am 
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Koa
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Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
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First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Looks good and interesting. Yes, the usual cone well depth for a biscuit is one inch and the top is flat (no dome). You set most of the action with the neck angle as you have very little adjustment at the biscuit. Most have neck sticks but I've had good luck with my standard bolt on neck - I also bolt down the fretboard extension to make it easy to adjust neck angle.

One of the tricky things for me is that you are starting with the bridge location and working back (rather than positioning the bridge last as you do on an acoustic). Decide whether or not you want any compensation now, then position the cone well relative to the scale length and neck block. As you know, most resos aren't compensated but if your client wants to fret it you might consider.

Carry on and please keep posting the progress. I'll be interested in what you end up doing for electronics and how it sounds.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:37 am 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:55 am
Posts: 55
Location: Kaboutersem
First name: Hilko
Last Name: Nackaerts
Country: Belgium
Focus: Build
Thanks for the feedback Freeman!

Yups I'm going to add compensation as I want to have the intonation as good as possible. He will be fretting strings too.

I know it is a wee bit strange to start with the bridge position and work from there.
Will keep posting progress, very curious how this one will sound...

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:04 pm 
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Koa
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Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
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First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Marzano San wrote:
Thanks for the feedback Freeman!

Yups I'm going to add compensation as I want to have the intonation as good as possible. He will be fretting strings too.

I know it is a wee bit strange to start with the bridge position and work from there.
Will keep posting progress, very curious how this one will sound...


To compensate or not to compensate.... For slide you don't want any, for fretting you do. However when playing slide you have the ultimate compensator on your pinkie, and frequently you want the note just a hair flat so I would tend to put a little bit in. You can rotate the cone slightly but that brings one end closer to the nut which you don't want. Obviously the higher the action (for slide) the worse it will be too.

I have both a wood 1932 Dobro spider and a metal biscuit bridge Duolian - neither have any compensation. When I built my tricone I put a little in and am glad that I did.

One of the other things you should discuss with your client (probably already have) is the fretboard radius and width - as a slide player I am partial to a wide board with about 20 inch radius, but an electric player is probably going to want a narrower one with more. Again, another compromise, with a radiused board and lower action you'll get a lot of fretout unless you use a curved slide.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:11 pm 
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Koa
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First name: Freeman
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I'll just add a couple of more thoughts on sound. IMHO the wood body will mellow the sound a lot - when I play my tricone gently it sounds almost like an acoustic, but its got the reso bite when I dig in or use finger picks. Biscuits are usually metal body and we associate that loud nasty sound with sharp attack and delay - I think the wood will take some of that away.

The other question is how you will amp it - if you want good reso sound you probably need one of the little internal mics inside the cone well or maybe the one built into the biscuit. I've heard resonators with lipstick or magnetic pups and they sound pretty much like an electric guitar (duh). If it were me and I knew it would be played mostly plugged in I would install both and let the engineer pick the sound at the board. I play unplugged and the few times I gig I just put a mic in front of the grills.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:16 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:55 am
Posts: 55
Location: Kaboutersem
First name: Hilko
Last Name: Nackaerts
Country: Belgium
Focus: Build
Freeman wrote:
One of the other things you should discuss with your client (probably already have) is the fretboard radius and width - as a slide player I am partial to a wide board with about 20 inch radius, but an electric player is probably going to want a narrower one with more. Again, another compromise, with a radiused board and lower action you'll get a lot of fretout unless you use a curved slide.

Thanks for pointing this out!

He's got a National (steel) resonator, I was thinking copying that neck/fingerboard and go for a 25" scale (that's what he wants)
I'll double check with him and yes the radius is an important 'item' to discuss.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:23 pm 
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Mahogany
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Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:55 am
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Location: Kaboutersem
First name: Hilko
Last Name: Nackaerts
Country: Belgium
Focus: Build
Freeman wrote:
I'll just add a couple of more thoughts on sound. IMHO the wood body will mellow the sound a lot - when I play my tricone gently it sounds almost like an acoustic, but its got the reso bite when I dig in or use finger picks. Biscuits are usually metal body and we associate that loud nasty sound with sharp attack and delay - I think the wood will take some of that away.

The other question is how you will amp it - if you want good reso sound you probably need one of the little internal mics inside the cone well or maybe the one built into the biscuit. I've heard resonators with lipstick or magnetic pups and they sound pretty much like an electric guitar (duh). If it were me and I knew it would be played mostly plugged in I would install both and let the engineer pick the sound at the board. I play unplugged and the few times I gig I just put a mic in front of the grills.



That's why I'm going for a highlander iP-1X INLINE for the cone and use a P90 (un-waxed slightly microphonic) for the magnetic picup.
I've ordered a National Slimline Pickup and will A-B test is with the P-90 (a friend of mine is going to wind it)

A volume for each pickup and a "blend knob" will be installed

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:45 am 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:55 am
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Location: Kaboutersem
First name: Hilko
Last Name: Nackaerts
Country: Belgium
Focus: Build
Almost ready to glue the top on
Image

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:17 am 
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Mahogany
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Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:55 am
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Location: Kaboutersem
First name: Hilko
Last Name: Nackaerts
Country: Belgium
Focus: Build
And the top is on
Image

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:22 am 
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Mahogany
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Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:55 am
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Location: Kaboutersem
First name: Hilko
Last Name: Nackaerts
Country: Belgium
Focus: Build
Ok, the top is on, here are some mockup shots...
Don't know about having the controls in that position just fiddling about.

Image

Image

Image

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:33 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:55 am
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Location: Kaboutersem
First name: Hilko
Last Name: Nackaerts
Country: Belgium
Focus: Build
Probably gonna go for this layout.
Pickup switch top left like LP style guitars
Master Volume at horn.
P90 & Resonator pickup volume next to chrome cover ( I could add a master tone knob, it is an option)

Image

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:42 pm 
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Koa
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Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:47 am
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Excellent! Different and very well done.
I look forward to hearing some sound clips/video.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:18 am 
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Mahogany
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Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:55 am
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Location: Kaboutersem
First name: Hilko
Last Name: Nackaerts
Country: Belgium
Focus: Build
Mike Dotson wrote:
Excellent! Different and very well done.
I look forward to hearing some sound clips/video.


Thanks Mike!
Sound clips/video no problem. My friend owns a studio and he will make some ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:47 am 
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Mahogany
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Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:55 am
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Location: Kaboutersem
First name: Hilko
Last Name: Nackaerts
Country: Belgium
Focus: Build
The binding is on, scraped back and sanded the guitar
Image

Sprayed a washcoat on
Image

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:47 am 
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Mahogany
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Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:55 am
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Location: Kaboutersem
First name: Hilko
Last Name: Nackaerts
Country: Belgium
Focus: Build
Just a wee update.
Made the fingerboard the other day, 20" radius - 25.5" scale lenght
Image

I'm liking the quilted maple top, a bit of a shame I had to cut a big circle out of it :)
Image

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 12:19 pm 
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Mahogany
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Location: Kaboutersem
First name: Hilko
Last Name: Nackaerts
Country: Belgium
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A wee update.
Stung it up today. Temporarily fitted the neck on and fixed the fingerboard to the neck with double sided tape. This way I could check the intonation which had to be adjusted a bit.
All fine now so glued the neck and fingerboard on.
Also routed the cavity for the P90 pickup.
Can't wait to hear it trough an amp as is was sounding pretty sweet acoustic!
Update soon.
Tanks for watching,
Hilko

Here is a shot when I stung it up. Had to drink a bottle of wine and knock the neck off to be able to play it :D
Image

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 3:15 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:21 am
Posts: 668
Location: Philadelphia
First name: Michael
Last Name: Shaw
City: Philadelphia
State: PA
Zip/Postal Code: 19125
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
Looking good..

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 4:09 am 
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Mahogany
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Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:55 am
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Location: Kaboutersem
First name: Hilko
Last Name: Nackaerts
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Thanks Shaw!

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:37 pm 
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Mahogany
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Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:55 am
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Location: Kaboutersem
First name: Hilko
Last Name: Nackaerts
Country: Belgium
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I've stuck a shadow nanoflex pickup in the biscuit base today and must say it's heading to the right direction.
Image
Still have to level the frets as some notes are sounding harsh amplified by the biscuit pickup...
The P90 is sounding great!

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:07 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
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First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Clips, we need sound clips. But it sure looks sweet.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:07 am 
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Mahogany
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Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:55 am
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Location: Kaboutersem
First name: Hilko
Last Name: Nackaerts
Country: Belgium
Focus: Build
Freeman wrote:
Clips, we need sound clips. But it sure looks sweet.

I'll record some after I did the fretwork. Also going to put an ebony cap on the bridge.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:13 am 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:55 am
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Location: Kaboutersem
First name: Hilko
Last Name: Nackaerts
Country: Belgium
Focus: Build
Freeman wrote:
Clips, we need sound clips. But it sure looks sweet.

Still fiddling about with the cone pickup, still not happy with it. Again, still have to do the fretwork as they are still not leveled... :oops:
Anyhow here is a sound clip
first part is the nanoflex pickup
second is the p90 straight in garageband using this crappy classic blues amp thing (don't have a proper microphone to record it trough my DC-30
third part is the nanoflex+P90 straight in a DI recorded with garage band.
Please don't judge my playing skills I'm not a player but a builder...
Anyhow, like I said, heading in the right direction but not quite there...

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:20 pm 
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The piezo sounds about like most of 'em do without a lot of buffering (ie, pre-amp and EQ). They rarely sound very full through a regular guitar amp and will sound best through a PA or acoustic amp. Overall I'd say you're on the right track.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:17 am 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

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Location: Kaboutersem
First name: Hilko
Last Name: Nackaerts
Country: Belgium
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Mike Dotson wrote:
The piezo sounds about like most of 'em do without a lot of buffering (ie, pre-amp and EQ). They rarely sound very full through a regular guitar amp and will sound best through a PA or acoustic amp. Overall I'd say you're on the right track.

Yeah, personally I don't like the piezo sound that much. I ordered a "plate transducer" and going to try the K&K style pickup.

I pore filled the guitar and starting to spray next week (hope the finish arrives in time)

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