Official Luthiers Forum!

Solely owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:41 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Single Cone Biscuit
PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:39 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:51 am
Posts: 2143
Location: San Diego, CA
First name: Andy
Last Name: Zimmerman
City: San Diego
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 92103
Country: United States
Focus: Build
I have ordered the Beard Plans, but I was considering using a Single Cone with a Biscuit Bridge.
What does the cone sit on. This type appears to be set in the body, not on a ledge like a spider bridge

Thanks

_________________
Andy Z.
http://www.lazydogguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Single Cone Biscuit
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:52 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:44 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Woodstock, Illinois
First name: Kent
Last Name: Fishburn
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
The cone does sit on a ledge similar to the spider bridge reso's, but the ledge needs to be deeper because the cone is reversed compared to the spider cone. I build it up with birch ply and route the sound well about and inch deep or so (I forget exactly how deep I make them), but it's a good idea set up your cone and biscuit so you can measure it for depth of the sound well and get an idea of the neck angle you will need. Don't forget to include your cover plate in that mock up, because that will establish the upper limit of your bridge height and you need a slight gap under the cover for string clearance. I usually make the soundwell deep enough that the biscuit is just above the cutout in the coverplate, maybe by about 1/8" or a little less. Coverplates cones and biscuits vary so always make a mockup and measure it.
Kent


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Single Cone Biscuit
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 12:51 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 114
First name: William
Last Name: Bustard
Country: CANADA
Ive just started my first duolian style and I find that a "dry" run to get ALL the measurements is a must.

I realize that when playing slide it probably doesnt matter a awful lot however
regarding placement of the biscuit/cone centre,
Q: should one compensate for string depression?
TIA
WB

_________________
You just pick up a chord, go twang, and you're got music. -Sid Vicious


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Single Cone Biscuit
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 3:19 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:58 am
Posts: 2768
Location: Tampa, Florida USA
I say yes if you ever plan on fingering it. If you only plan on playing it lap or it's a square neck then no need to. But if your going to play bottle neck blues and fingerstyle treat it just like an acoustic.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Single Cone Biscuit
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:08 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 868
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Here is a picture of my OMI Duolian with the cone out and in place, should give you some idea of the support.

Image

Image

You can also see the neck stick, mushrooms and other inner workings. Just for comparison, here is a 1932 Dobro spider and my home made wooden tricone

Image

Image


Let me add that when you build a resonator everything starts at the saddle location and works out. Normally the saddle has no compensation and is exactly scale length, which then sets the location relative to the neck/body joint. If you are going to play fretted you may want to compensate slightly.

In addition, the heigth of the saddle is very important - you can make small action changes with slots but mostly you do it with neck angle. I would suggest getting your cone, biscuit, cover plate and laying everything out in side view, measuring very carefully. As I recall the cone well is one inch deep but check your neck angle and all the other geometry things - its not like an acoustic where you can move the bridge around.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Single Cone Biscuit
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:30 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 868
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
A couple more general thoughts. The Beard plans are probably a wide flat fretboard, 25.0 scale is common. If you are going to play strictly lap slide, that is perfect, but most people play biscuits Spanish style. Put a little radius into the board, but not much - I happen to like 20 inch. IMHO 16 is way too much. Also, most spiders are around 1-7/8 at the nut, consider going a little narrower (1-3/4 seems perfect). Resonators usually have horrible intonation, if you are going to fret a lot, particularly up the neck, consider a small amount of compensation, but now your slide playing will be flat. I made the cone well in the tricone slightly oversized and ended up cheating the cones slightly to get a good compromise (something I can't do with the Duolian).

Neck sticks are traditional - on the spider it ends at the well (you can see it in the photo), on the biscuit it extends to the tail block. On the tricone I used a plain old bolted neck joint - it has held up fine. The f/b extensions are not glued down but instead two screws under a couple of the dots go into a block under the top - this allows the neck to be loosened to adjust the angle.

On the tricone I left a little ridge to give more support for the cover plate - you won't be able to do that with a single cone so get the fit perfect (you can see how close the screws are to the edge). You only have so much room under the palm rest - again, do a dry fit. Normally resos are roughly OM/000 sized, but on a woodie the cone well will take up a fair amount of space - in mine it was close to the kerfing for the the top.

Othewise, they are just like an acoustic LOL

oh - don't forget that spider and biscuit cones are different diameters - another reason to have your cone in hand before you start cutting anything


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Single Cone Biscuit
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:41 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 10:32 am
Posts: 2493
First name: alan
Last Name: stassforth
City: Santa Rosa
State: ca
Zip/Postal Code: 95404
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Nice, Freeman!!!!!!!!!!!
The tricone.
Wanna build a Weiss tri someday.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com