Rod, Alain tried it, Alain?
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| Egg white pore filler http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8913 |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:51 pm ] |
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I was looking through the archives recently and remembered this post regarding egg white as a pore filler. So, I was wondering if some of you who mentioned that you may give it a try did. So, did you and how did it go? Would you do it again? Did you just separate the yokes or did you buy the egg white's only container at the grocery store? |
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| Author: | Matt Gage [ Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:04 pm ] |
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Hi Rod, I have been using egg whites and getting mixed results. My latest attempt, was on some of that crazy sapele,which has some large pores which fill well, but i still havent achieved an absolute level with them yet. I find myself going over it, after I seal with vynl sealer, with good old oil based paste filler just to be sure. The egg whites have filled alot of the pores so the amount of darkening of the wood due to the oil filler is minimized. I think egg white filling is worth persuing and perfecting...and I am getting better results with each attempt. oh yeah, I just seperate the yokes, one egg goes a long way. |
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| Author: | Serge Poirier [ Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:29 pm ] |
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Rod, Alain tried it, Alain?
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| Author: | TRein [ Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:03 pm ] |
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Egg white is a good sizing material, i.e. a sealer. I would not rely on it as a gap filling material, as a traditional paste wood filler is. Egg white works brilliantly on spruce as a first coat. |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:54 am ] |
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I tried some egg whites (store bought pre-seperated...)on some EIR. I wasn't super thrilled with the results. I laid it on the bare wood. It does dry quickly but I'd still wait 10-12 hours before sanding. After 3 applications, I could still see a lot of pores though. Like Thomas says, it might be a better sealer than gap filler. After reading a post on it (I think it was Paul Woolson who had brought it up) I wanted to try it. I'm sure my mixed results were due to my poor technique though... Can Paul Woolson chime in here? Maybe a mix of egg whites and sawdust to make a kind of slurry/paste would work better? OK, I read the original thread (  ) I'll try making a paste with sawdust and egg whites and see how that goes... See, I knew I had screwed up somehow!!!
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| Author: | Homeboy [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:36 am ] |
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What finishes will work over an egg sealer/filler? Is it just good for French Polish, or could I use my waterbased finish over the egg whites? Sounds interesting. Homeboy |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:25 am ] |
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Darn near any finish. Yes Fp will work fine with it. But then again shellac will stick darn near to any thing. that is why it is the most common sealer in history. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 6:26 am ] |
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Since the current 2 guitars are imbiua and maple, I was thinking mostly about the filler for the imbiua since it has such a small pore structure, not like EIR. I'll try it on some scrap first though, to see how I like it. I don't need anything on the maple though right? I've never finished maple before. I was planning on shellac as the sealing 2-3 coats and than lacquer. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 7:40 am ] |
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Bump |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:24 am ] |
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Rod, I'm no expert with maple (so I should just keep my yap shut...) but still, I'd say no pore filling is needed. Maple is close-pored like spruce. |
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| Author: | Louis Freilicher [ Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:45 am ] |
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I have not tried it myself but I believe you should sand the wet egg whites with 220 to make a slurry to fill the pores. Louis |
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| Author: | crowduck [ Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:11 pm ] |
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I read that linked thread in the 1st post, and this discussion reminds me of some stuff I read about the ancient Cremona violin makers. Someone did a high tech analysis, and it appeared that there was a 'ground' beneath the finish containing both albumin(egg whites) and borax. Since they didn't have sandpaper in those days, perhaps the borax was used like pumice to create a wood slurry to fill pores. It is also conjectured that the borax treatment might have been intended as a repellent for wood worms which were thought to be prevelant there in those times. I might get myself a box of 20 Mule Team and some egg whites, and do some experiments. Anyone know what to use to cut or thin down egg whites? BTW, reading up on Borax I learned that it is crystaline, so maybe not so too far fetched to think of on a musical instrument. CrowDuck |
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| Author: | mikev [ Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:19 pm ] |
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Borax is also used as a preservative in taxidermy. I don't know anything about the why, but I do know it is.. Could the borax be added to the egg white to preserve the eggwhite.?? That way if you had to eat the instrument years later it would still taste good with a little bacon. 
Mike |
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| Author: | Louis Freilicher [ Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:31 pm ] |
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mmmmmmm..... Bacon! Louis |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:50 pm ] |
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That's too funny Mike Variano. Borax is also used for curing salmon roe for use as bait around my neck of the woods. Chris, interesting theory there. You may have something. Are ya going try it? Here's what Wikipidia says about borax Borax, also called sodium borate or sodium tetraborate, is an important boron compound. It is a soft white many-sided crystal that dissolves easily in water. If left exposed to dry air, it slowly loses its water of hydration and becomes the white chalky mineral tincalconite (Na2B4O7 ยท 5H2O). Commercially sold borax is usually partially dehydrated. Borax occurs naturally in evaporite deposits produced by the repeated evaporation of seasonal lakes (see playa). The most commercially important deposits are found in Turkey and near Boron, California and other locations in the American southwest, the Atacama desert in Chile, and in Tibet. Borax may also be produced synthetically from other boron compounds. Borax is widely used in detergents, water softeners, soaps, disinfectants, and pesticides. Its use in detergents is due to its ability to bind to and solvate dirt particles in addition to producing peroxides which have a bleaching effect. One of its most widely advertised uses was as a hand-cleaner for industrial workers. It is used in making enamel glazes, glass and strengthening pottery and ceramics. It is also easily converted to boric acid or borate, which have many applications. It is also used to make buffer solutions that are used in chemical analysis. Large amounts of borax pentahydrate are used for manufacturing insulating fibreglass and cellulose insulation as a fire retardant and anti-fungal compound. Large amounts are also used in production of sodium perborate monohydrate for use in detergents. A mixture of borax and ammonium chloride is used as a flux when welding iron and steel. It lowers the melting point of the unwanted iron oxide (scale), allowing it to run off. Borax is also used mixed with water as a flux when soldering jewelry metals such as gold or silver. It allows the molten solder to flow evenly over the joint in question. When used in a mixture, borax can be used to kill carpenter ants and fleas. Borax is also an ingredient in Slime. The origin of the name is traceable to the Persian word burah. The word was also used disparagingly in the 1940s to refer to tawdry modernistic furniture and other works of industrial design. Some say that the use came from advertisement displays for the household cleaner, though the use may also derive from the Yiddish word "borachs," meaning rented furniture. Borax is also a food additive in some countries (it is banned in the United States), with E number E285. Its use is similar to salt, and it appears notably in French and Iranian caviar. Boric acid, Sodium Borate, and Sodium Perborate are estimated to have a fatal dose from 0.1 to 0.5g/kg (Handbook of Poisoning, Robert H. Dreisback,eight edition,p.314). These substances are toxic to all cells, and have a slow excretion rate through the kidneys. Kidney toxicity is the greatest, with liver fatty degeneration, cerebral edema, and gastroenteritis. Boric acid solutions used as an eye wash or abraded skin is known to be especially toxic to infants, especially after repeated use due to its slow elimination rate(Goodman and Gillman's: The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics, 6th edition,chapter on Antiseptics and Disinfectants, page 971). |
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| Author: | crowduck [ Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:41 am ] |
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Sorry, I wasn't meaning to hijack this thread. After a bit of searching around I found these postings regarding egg whites as a sealer/ground. CrowDuck --------------------------------------------------------- You have to beat the egg white till it form a firm foam (snow point), then let it subside for 14 hours, you will use the liquid part. --------------------------------------------------------- Sacconi's "vernice bianca" is made with arabic gum, sugar, honey and egg white decanted as above. There is lots written about Vernice Bianca. At the end I made up my own recipe and I really don't think it makes that much difference. I'm not even that precise about proportions. I use one egg white. I mix about a tablespoon of brown sugar or the equivalent amount of maple syrup. I then wait for my wife to leave the house. Then, I use her mixer to whip this concoction into a froth. Filter this mass through a pair of her pantyhose. The resulting liquid mix with 2 tablespoons of gum arabic (available in liquid form at your local art supplies store). Mix well and dilute with enough water to desired consistency. |
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