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| Hand held Purfling cutter advise? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=3417 |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:32 pm ] |
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I'm looking at buying a hand held purfling cutter, the Stewmac Sloane Purfling Cutter is looking very appealing, Sloan Unit But the Schneider Gramil at LMI has my interest as well. Schneider Gramil Does anyone have (one or both) of these tools? If so, please let me know your thoughts, pitfalls? Pro - cons etc - Thanks Lance. PS- I know, why not just use my LMI binding machine - I have and I still do, but I want to get a little more control over this process, the binding machine just seems like over kill for a (Pufling) ledge. |
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| Author: | letseatpaste [ Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:55 pm ] |
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I've got the Schneider one, but haven't used it yet. Always on the lookout for tips, though. I've got more time than space, so if a gramil and chisel will do the job with some practice, I'm gonna try that. |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:04 am ] |
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Lance, I have always used a gramil knife to make the first cuts for my purfling and binding channels on every guitar that I have made prior to using the laminate trimmer to acually remove the wood. The gramil cut enormously reduces the chance of chip out especially on the top. In fact for my first few guitars I only used the gramil and chisel to cut the binding channels and I'm seriously thinking of going back to that way. I use what you have called the Sloane type of cutter because that is what was available in England when I started building. I think they have been like that for several hundred years. It is simple in operation and very controllable. I have been toying with the idea of getting a Schneider type just to make the comparison. I thnk you'd be happy with either after a bit of practice on scrap. Not very helpful in choosing I know but I can thoroughly recommend their use for a neat channel. Colin |
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:30 am ] |
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I made the purfling cutter shown in Sloane's "steel string guitar" book that I used to cut the purfling and binding channel on my first 2 or 3 guitars. Adjustment of the cutting depth is done by shimming the blade with tin (check on scrap!). The channel is very clean and precise if you take your time and make sure you don't let the cutter follow the grain lines. It takes forever though, but I guess after a few instruments things speed up. I have not tried the gramil, Richard Schneider seemed to like it so that should say something. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:34 am ] |
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I use the Sloane and like it and agree with Colin about reduces the chance of tear out. |
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| Author: | Robbie O'Brien [ Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:58 am ] |
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I have both of them and rarely use either of them. I just find that the laminate trimmer method is so much quicker. I used to use them for the first cut to reduce tear out but later found that I hardly ever get tear out anyway so why bother? |
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| Author: | Shawn [ Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:32 am ] |
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I have used and still use both types of cutters. Both designs are centuries old as Colin mentioned. For the Schneider one I use one that I bought from LMI as a kit. It was back in the late 1970's and Schneider was showing people his tool in which he had modified a Gramil that he had from Europe (German if I remember correctly). For the price of 12.00 the kit consisted of two maple rectangular pieces, one with the cross hole bored, the blade, a wedge and set screw. It came with instructions on how to fit it all together and a hand drawn picture of how to hold it while cutting. That was my first Gramil. The Stew-Mac cutter is a traditional violin family cutter and also works quite well as long as a gentle touch is used for the cut. The idea is to sever the fibers more than cutting and if you are careful it does a very good job. I now have a nice one that is identical to the Stew Mac but for the first 5 years the cutter that I used was a handmade version of it where I just taped a instrument makers knife to a block of wood, shimmed out to the width I needed. I lived in New York City back in the 70's and Eugene Clark knew more about traditional spanish contruction than anyone. He told me and Kenny Hill has confirmed it that in Mexico and other places there are local guitar builders that will build complete guitars with almost no tools other than a saw, a plane, a scraper and a knife. They will use a knife to cut out the rosette trough, to cut the purfling strips for building the rosettes, to carve the neck and headstock and other parts. Eugene clark wrote a couple of articles years back on these types of tools...I dont know the issue but it may be in one of the Red Books. I still score/cut my tops with a gramil but then use a router bit to finish off. It leaves the top cut very crisp. |
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| Author: | jfrench [ Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:21 am ] |
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Lance - I use the LMI Gramil and I'm very happy with it. It comes with a hock blade and holds an edge well. I score all my lines with that, and then come back and route the binding ledges. This allows me to be aware of any inconsistencies in the routing, and keeps the grain from tearing out. I've used it for other things too, it makes for a good consistent marking gauge. When I slot heads I use it to make sure the center line of each of the slots are the same by indexing the Gramil off the sides of the head. If I'm making a bridge at 28mm, and its straight since I make classicals, I mark it with the Gramil to be sure front and back are parallel. I use the thing a bunch. |
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| Author: | Mike Mahar [ Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:37 am ] |
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I make a gramil for every binding and perfling combination I use. It takes about 20 minutes. I glue a piece of binding and perfling to the edge of a block of soft wood. I then glue an Xacto blade to the stack. (#17 Light weight chisling. It is the kind that is beveled on one edge). See illustration:  |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:12 am ] |
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I use the LMI (Schneider) for the initial score. I like it and it does the job well. |
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| Author: | Paul Schulte [ Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:56 am ] |
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I have the same one StewMac sells. I use it to cut the binding channels at the tailblock around the mitered purflings and on headstock bindings near the nut where I can't reach with a router. The trick is as stated earlier, just to cut the fibers. The first few passes are the critcal ones. It comes with two blades with the bevels on opposite sides. Just remember to use the blade that has the bevel facing the "waste" area and you make nice clean channels. |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:14 am ] |
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i bought the lmi schneider gramil a number of years ago when my rather ancient home made beast went on an extended holiday without letting me know. have had no complaints and the old one has remained unused even after it returned. |
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| Author: | Monty Cadenhead [ Wed Oct 05, 2005 3:31 pm ] |
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Here's another kind: http://cgi.ebay.com/PROFESSIONAL-EUROPEAN-VIOLIN-PURFLING-CU TTER_W0QQitemZ7333977488QQcategoryZ47067QQssPageNameZWD1VQQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem Monty |
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