Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Fri Mar 29, 2024 9:26 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 71 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:42 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 1:57 am
Posts: 97
Location: East Granby, CT

I have the EXCELLENTJohn Mayes DVD's on building that I've been studying all through the holidays here.  John uses his stationary Belt Sander to shape the neck and the heel.  Seems pretty efficient, but I don't have one.  So how do you all do it?  I could carve and shape it with a spokeshave, but I was looking for a more efficient method...


Pics please if you have them!


Mitch



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:52 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 10:11 am
Posts: 2761
Location: Tampa Bay
First name: Dave
Last Name: Anderson
City: Clearwater
State: Florida
Zip/Postal Code: 33755
Country: United States
I like this sander a lot for shaping my necks Mitch.
Grizz

_________________
Anderson Guitars
Clearwater,Fl. 33755


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:54 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:04 am
Posts: 2060
I've never personally found any big draw toward using a spoke shave. Course rasp and scraper have pretty much always been my tools. I do use a band saw for removing a lot of the bulk before I start hand shaping.

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:24 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:53 am
Posts: 1584
Location: PA, United States

Spoke shave or draw knife DOES have some merit...It produces shavings and almost no sawdust. BUT, it will leave facets that will need to be leveled out (sandpaper). The big caution with a drawknife, is that it will tear out a rogue grain (african mahogany) and it doesn't care if it's the last stroke on a neck, and leave a huge gaping wound.


There are MANY ways to do this carve a neck. I'd recommend you get a couple rasps, a straight edge, some hard and soft sanding blocks, 3 grits of sandpaper, and got to town! Many more will input, and some might have pix



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:28 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:53 am
Posts: 1584
Location: PA, United States
Oh and the Grizzly sander posted above is probably what you were looking for, right? Most of my previous post was for the shaft.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:33 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 12973
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
To shape my necks I use a cell phone - and call John Watkins......

Hey - it's a new year and some of us never learn anything........


_________________
Ann Arbor Guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:52 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:20 am
Posts: 2593
Location: Powell River BC Canada
First name: Danny
Last Name: Vincent
Having only done one so far, but made a fair sized mountain of power tool
sawdust and chips over the years, there is a lot to be said for making long,
curly mahogany shavings with a nice, sharp spoke shave. Pretty therapeutic
for me. Don't know about the rest of you but I need that some days.

I guess it comes down to how fast a production you want. There's always
CNC.

Happy New Year,
Danny


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:54 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:53 am
Posts: 1584
Location: PA, United States

That's funny Hesh. I did use one of his premade necks successfully, in a hurry. Saved some time. Of course, I still had to shape that rectangular paddle into a curvy headstock though... It's a great option. Back to our original question....


Anyone post some pix for mitch?



Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:35 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:01 am
Posts: 140
Location: United Kingdom
Band saw to remove the bulk then rasp and chisle.
I also like to use a violin makers knife to carve the heal becouse it avoides
chipout if you have any laminates in your neck.

apart from that my favourate tools are a medium hand cut cabenit rasp
(herdim) for rough shaping.
then a micro plane rasp along with a fine hand cut rasp for final shaping.
Then i use a good sandpaper such as lubrasil to finish.
Allthough i do use a number of other tools including a spokeshave.
Its just a matter of finding the tool that feels right for you.
You will know when you find it.

This a job a love doing and i dont think i will ever tire of doing it.

Please bear in mind that i allways use use hand tools where possable so i
cant comment on the belt sander method allthough it looks like you can
very good results very quickly using it.

Have fun,

Joel.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:42 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:21 pm
Posts: 3291
Location: Alexandria MN
Happy New Year! 
I use the inflatable Grizzly drum sanders on a hand drill to shape the heel.  Then rasps, and scrapers and sandpaper to fine tune. 
I use a trick Charles Fox taught us for the shaft.  Shape the exact profile at the 1st and 10th frets (for a 14 fret) using, rasps, sandpaper sticks etc. until your templates fit perfectly.  Hog off most of the excess wood in between with whatever you like.  (I'm using 40G on an air sander right now.)  Then get a flat piece of 3/4" particle board cut to the same length as the distance between the 1st and 10th frets with the edges rounded a little.  Cover it with 80G self adhesive paper and put a 1" strip of the brown StewMac binding tape on each end so it rides on the profiled areas.  Sand horizontally with this and it will blend the shaft with the previously profiled areas and come out really flat.  You can then finish the transition from the heel to the 10th fret with the drum sanders on a drill and the usual array of tools to get the final product.
I'm sure the more experienced guys just whip the whole thing out freehand on a belt sander in 15" but this is pretty foolproof for beginners like me.
I do have a little template for the heel profile that works great with a RoboSander.  This should get you there I hope.

http://kennedyguitars.com/Kennedy%20Guitars/Heel%20Profile.h tml


Terry



_________________
It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:46 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:21 pm
Posts: 3291
Location: Alexandria MN
Take out the extra space in html (the h tml) before you paste.  I can't seem to get the hyperlink feature to work with FireFox on my Mac.
Sorry
TJK


_________________
It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:53 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:49 pm
Posts: 2915
Location: Norway
I use the band saw to cut away as much as possible, then move on to statinary belt sanders, drum sander and drill press sanding drums to quikcly shape the headstock and the rough out the heel. Draw knifes and spoke shaves work OK for the neck shaft with unfigured, plain woods, but that is the easy part anyways. Chisel and rasps form the heel / headstock transition, and for woods like curly maple only rasps and abrasives for all final shaping.


_________________
Rian Gitar og Mandolin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:23 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:58 am
Posts: 1667
Lancelot, rasps, files, big sanding block and 80 grit, scrapers, 280 grit sandpaper.

in that order.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:31 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:37 am
Posts: 4777
Great thread. After the thread two weeks ago about being able to carve a
neck, I'll feel like a poser until I can, and I'm looking forward to trying.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:47 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 4:09 am
Posts: 252
Location: United States
I use a sanding drum in my drill press, microplane rasps, scrapers, sanding blocks, and sandpaper in my hand.  The bulk of the wood and shaping is done with the sanding drum and drill press though.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:13 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 7:17 am
Posts: 622
Location: Santo, TX
Or, if you have access to a 4" grinder but the Lancelot is too intimidating, these things do a killer job at stock removal and can leave a pretty slick finish. It does still require a light touch. You will be surprised at how quick you can remove stock with a 36 grit disc! Pop it off and put on a higher grit and they can slick off pretty well, too.

Other than that, I have two 4" belt sanders - one with 40 grit and one with 80. I hog off the majority of the stock around the heel with one then swap right over to the other without missing a beat.


_________________
Wes McMillian
Santo, TX
http://www.wesmcmillian.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:14 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 7:17 am
Posts: 622
Location: Santo, TX
And, of course, I still finish up with the typical hand tools and sandpaper.

_________________
Wes McMillian
Santo, TX
http://www.wesmcmillian.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:24 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 1:41 am
Posts: 1157
Location: Siloam Springs, AR
I've only done one neck so far, but I used a chisel and rasp at the heel, and a spindle sander to start forming the transitions at the heel and at the headstock. I used a little Ibex finger plane for shaping the shaft and that worked out really well, easy to control but it works quickly. I used a flat sanding block after the Ibex to smooth things out and make sure the shaft was straight.

_________________
______________________________
Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:00 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:03 am
Posts: 6680
Location: Abbotsford, BC Canada
Sharks with frickin' laser beams strapped to their heads.



OK, seriously. I get the thickness with my router (tutorial to come sometime in the near future) cut taper on the bandsaw, glue one the fretboard, trim the neck to match the taper of the fretboard on the router table (watch out for the nut end of the fretboard), than it's rasps, files and sandpaper.

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:09 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:32 pm
Posts: 1969
Location: United States
I bought John Mayes video on neck carving. He did almost the whole thing on a bench top belt sander. It was amazing. I do most of it on the bench top belt sander following up with 5" RO sander and then finish with hand sanding.

_________________
"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:36 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:41 pm
Posts: 975
Location: United States
First name: Tracy
Last Name: Leveque
City: Denver
State: CO
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I've got some videos on my website from Edward Dick's CO School of
Lutherie that shows his method of carving a neck. You can see the videos
HERE
I've John's neck carving video too, and it is very nice. You just need to find
the method that works for you after some trial and error. There is no greater
satisfaction than carving your own neck! Good luck!
Tracy

_________________
Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:37 am 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:29 pm
Posts: 39
Location: Australia
Best tools I bought for this were the Stew Mac Dragon files. Best rasps I have ever used. With mahogany I can't see any reason to use anything else apart from a spoke shave to remove the bulk. With maple I use the band saw to get the bulk off. Then rasp to clean up marks and do the heal and finally a piece of stiff sanding belt (stiff so it does not conform to the rough neck shape) and sand it like a shoe shiner.
I've had heaps off experience shaping things in a previous life as a surfboard shaper so I find this task quite easy and satisfying. Only takes about 20mins to finish a neck.
Happy New Year BTW
Dom


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:57 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:59 pm
Posts: 241
Drawknife then spokeshave for the shaft, laminated swedish steel knife (from woodcraft) for the heel, Nicholson four in one rasp/file overall then 80 grit on up. 


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:13 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:37 am
Posts: 590
Location: United States
First name: Michael
Last Name: Shaw
City: Phila
State: PA
Zip/Postal Code: 19125
Country: United States
[QUOTE=DaveAndy] I like this sander a lot for shaping my necks Mitch.
Grizz[/QUOTE]
Dave I was looking at this before. It attaches to a hand drill and looks like it might be awkward to use with a drill. My two cordless are heavy and I think it would be and issue. And is the drills speed sufficient enough?

_________________
Guitars, guitars and more guitars.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:59 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:55 am
Posts: 1392
Location: United States
First name: James
Last Name: Bolan
City: Nashville
State: Tennessee
Country: USA
I`m thinking you wanted some pics of some necks. Okay just kidding. Here`s what I like.Not what you can get from a bought pre carved,but it appeals to me.


This is one of the most rewarding parts of building a guitar for me.Check out Robbie O`Briens video available from LMI,It really explains neck carving in a way that is easy to understand.I use a spokeshave and a # 49 Nicholson Rasp, and then sand as in Robbie`s video.Hope this helps.
                        James W B
                       

_________________
James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 71 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 28 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com