Official Luthiers Forum!

[QUOTE=SteveS] Veneers are pretty easy to work with. I'm wondering if a "normal" outer rim that is about .080" think with a veneer of about .040" would do the trick.
Also, having made a number of RC airplanes with foam wing cores with 1/64 Baltic birch plywood, I can tell you for sure that it can add a lot of strength.
That stuff has three layers.
Instead of a double side, you could call it a quadruple side!    

I used contact cement for that and it worked great. I wonder if contact cement would be good for this application also.[/QUOTE]

I made a bunch of Selmer laminated sides with birch ply 1/32 inch center and 0.22 veneer outer. They were extremely stable, smooth and fairly stiff. The birch ply adds cross grain stiffness since the inner layer runs crosswise.

Contact cement is not too good for this. It creeps a bunch.

[QUOTE=CarltonM] [QUOTE=KenMcKay] If you take a bookmatch pair of side wood and slice one in
half then glue it back together and compare to the other side of the
bookmatch (planed slightly to account for kerf loss) for MOE they would
be the same I think. [/QUOTE]
I think there would be a difference. It seems to me that the glue layer acts as a reinforcement, like the fiber in fiberglass or rebar in concrete. A thin layer of quality epoxy is very glass-like. It doesn't want to bend. It can break, like glass, but the wood on either side of it acts to prevent that. It's a symbiotic relationship. [/QUOTE]

Watch the Somogyi video. He states that glued laminations would equal solid wood of the same thickness in MOE. I measured it myself and have found them equal.

[QUOTE=Tim McKnight]

Even the exterior side set shows signs of resin permeation. This sands off and does not effect the final finish process.



[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Heh, built in pore filling

Tim - A very useful and interesting tutorial. Thanks.

Jim

_________________
Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

Great info Tim and gang! I think there is a definite increase in volume when the sides are stiffer. I watched Michael Bashkin laminate his sides once before. The difference between his and Tim's lamination is that he uses the exact same wood on inner and outer, and he uses a thin foam padding between the clamping caul and sides. He says this eliminates any gaps or bumps and it allows the caul to conform to the mold and keep the sides evenly together. His guitars are the loudest and most responsive guitars I've ever played! But then again, I've never played a McKnight
Tracy

_________________
Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

[QUOTE=KenMcKay]Watch the Somogyi video. He states that glued laminations would equal solid wood of the same thickness in MOE. I measured it myself and have found them equal. [/QUOTE]
Interesting. I haven't had time to view the video yet.

So we seem to have two very different views here. Several fine, experienced builders say their laminated sides are stiffer than solid wood of the same thickness. Mass hallucination?    On the other hand, you and Ervin have provable, measured results that say otherwise. Faulty equipment?

Both sides seem competent and reasonable, so what are we "great unwashed" supposed to think?

Carlton you are funny Yea, both sides are making some pretty nice
guitars (not me) so who are we to argue.


Advantages of laminated sides for me are:
Preserving valuable timber.
Stabalize cross grain strength.
The individual waviness in each lamination even out once pressed and
glued together.
Thicker, stiffer sides can be made.
Lighter sides can be made stiffer.

Disadvantages:

Labor
Not as fun
glue may fail in the future
percieved as cheap.