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Well my first build is a learning process so bear with me. Used the clothes pin rubber band method to install kerfing. I think putting the spreaders in or not a good enough bond or wasn't clamped good enough(?) opened up a few gaps (see picture). I used tite bond red. Now the back is on. Could I fill those gaps with... or disassemble which is not very desirable.

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Just a box with strings https://www.facebook.com/wadesguitarshoporcas

Here they are

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Just a box with strings https://www.facebook.com/wadesguitarshoporcas

Take some scraps of your lining and some 100 grit paper. Sand the linings and collect a pile of the dust. Mix said dust with some titebond to creat a glue/dust putty.

Then break off a short piece of a wooden skewer, sand an end down to make a little putty knife and work the slurry into the gaps. If you angle the end of the skewer to be kind of like the tip of a katana, you can use the flat bit to force the slurry into the gaps.

When it dries there should be a reasonable amount of colour matching…

Are both plates glued on, or just the back? In other words, is the top on yet?

If the top is not yet on, I would flex the lining in that area to see how well attached it is, regardless of the gap. If it is solid, I would leave it alone. This is your first guitar. Give yourself room to make mistakes. If it is not solid, I would break or cut it off in that area, then replace it with a section that is glued on better.

If both plates are already glued on, I would just let this go. Again, give yourself room to make mistakes like this early on. You now probably know ways of preventing this on future instruments. Lesson learned.

Something else to consider - be mindful of those areas when you’re routing binding channels, if you plan to route them.


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Wade the very first thing you said, that these are a learning experiences right now should be your North Star and it was mine as well.

If the lining is solid and does not move leave it alone and move on but with a plan for corrective action.

The rubber band on a clothes pin clamps are not strong enough for linings in my experience and I used binder clips for my 54 1/2 builds and they worked great. I would at times get some black paint from the clips on the linings but a quick sanding and the black was gone. In fact I think it was the smaller size binder clips that fit perfectly and barely opened wide enough for this.

I also used mahogany reverse kerf linings and would soak them for 30 minutes in a wall paper trough for wetting wall paper. I used hot water as well. This made them very flexible and I would pad them dry before using Titebond "Original." Worked great and the moisture evaporated in a day or two. Titebond did not seem to care that the linings were damp.

This is not uncommon by the way I've seen it on iconic brand guitars and from some of the pro builders too.

Lastly and I am NOT picking on you and instead sharing something from my nearly 20 years on this forum. Howard Klepper back in the day when someone called "kerfed linings" kerfing would launch into a tirade that "kerfing" is the absence of wood from the saw or the gaps.... and that our linings were instead "kerfed linings." He got me on this once and I never forgot and am sure to call them kerfed linings ever since. You can do whatever you want of course I just wanted to share with you that there was a different level of knowledge on this forum back in the day when we had some world class builders participating here who were sure to point out what they perceived as an egregious misspeak from anyone...

His example was that there are also solid linings. Are we going to call solid linings "kerfing" too. Good point on Howard's part.

If anyone wants to see some of Howard's superb work from a true Master Luthier google Dovetail Madness and Son of Dovetail madness.

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Ann Arbor Guitars

Appreciate the replies, pretty discouraging to see that after I glued the back plate on. I learned a bit and will be more precise on my clamping. Soaking the "kerfed linings", thanks Hesh, I did consider and makes sense. I'll do a little damage control and move on. Thanks for the encouragement. I've already learned to do many different things better and I haven't even got to the neck yet, gulp. Really love it though.

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Just a box with strings https://www.facebook.com/wadesguitarshoporcas

“…..”Howard Klepper back in the day when someone called "kerfed linings" kerfing would launch into a tirade that "kerfing" is the absence of wood from the saw or the gaps.... and that our linings were instead "kerfed linings."

I forgot all about that Hesh, thanks for the memories!

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Wade, I use StewMac’s aluminum machined clamps with O rings. Those are prone to the same problem- not enough clamping pressure on the linings. I fixed the lack of pressure using flip flops from the dollar store. Cut a bunch of strips, long enough to span 4 or 5 installed clothes pins, and as wide as the inside of the squeeze end. Press those strips into your installed clothes pins. The compliant foam acts as a spring/ wedge when pushed into the squeeze end and increases the compression on the lining end. In the pic you can see the sections of foam rubber (flip flop material) pushed into the top of the clips. This is $1.25 flip flop season, so stock up. They also make awesome sanding blacks. I cut off the radiused toe end, affix PSA sand paper strip to the edge and use to sand inside curves like braces. It’s like a French Curve sasnding block.

For gaps after glue up, I have wedged walnut veneer in between the gaps, roughly trimmed to height, then trimmed to the height of the lining after glueing. You can sand a wedge shape into the strips as needed and they fit tight as a glove. Don’t fit them too tight because they swell with titetbond. They are all but invisible if you’re mindful when you glue them in, structurally appropriate and will let you sleep better at night.

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Measure Twice,

Karl Borum

The price on these https://www.homedepot.com/p/Anvil-3-4-i ... /302755763 has gone up a bit since I bought a few dozen. They work pretty well for gluing linings. I used to use clothespins (selected for spring strength—not all are manufactured the same), but these are tighter.

When you’re gluing lings to match the profile of the side, you have to break or cut them into smaller pieces. They can’t curve up and down without bulging sideways somewhere.

I agree with the previous advice, as long as it is sound then fix it cosmetically as best you can and move on. Sawdust with works pretty good.

For the future you obviously need to clamp better. I use plastic clamps like these 1” spring clamps from Woodcraft. You can find better prices, I have enough to do the top or the bottom. I usually place them about 1/8” apart so it takes a lot of them (I have 2 coffee cans full of them) but they work very well.

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/wood ... ring-clamp

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I just want to point out that the main problem is not with the clamps so much as it is the geometry. the problem is worse on the back but the linings cant bend in 3 dimensions. As you try to have the linings follow the back radius they pull away from the side. This is why Kevin Ryan developed his linings with the ability to bend in 3 dimensions.
Strong clamps do help though:)

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Good point, the linings do need to match the geometry reasonably well. I have been spoiled because all I use are Kevin Ryan’s linings.




Steve

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Karl my friend I remember those clamps when an OLFer first had them made and sold them here on the OLF. I bought several dozen of them and they didn't work as well as my binder clips so I sold mine in the OLF swap meet WITH a clear listing that I thought they did not work well. Someone bought mine anyway, what are ya going to do....

Anyway they made it to StewMac that's unfortunate because once again they did not work very well for me. I remember putting the bands on them, mine came with the bands in a bag and that was a nightmare too.

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Ann Arbor Guitars

Also what Bob said it's not going to end the world if you cut the linings or even piece a few segments together. I used to have to make a cut somewhere in the waist area if I recall correctly. If someone says they can hear a difference in linings they have better pot than I do.

I never used Kevin's lining because I refused to have any dependency or single points of failure in my supply chain on or from anyone else other than a freakin tree. But I had some of his linings and they were very nice but expensive if I remember correctly.

There is some real beauty in using what you have, cut-offs from the sides if the material if big enough and making solid linings. I never did it I had arrested development with reverse kerf linings which I loved how they stiffened up the sides. This is what OLFer who also did restorations for the Royal Museum in London of stringed instruments Colin Symonds used to do, solid linings and I was going to give it a try had I continued the building.

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Ann Arbor Guitars

Different, stronger clamps will help with this problem.
I moved to 1" metal clamps like these, especially helpfully for laminated solid linings.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

FWIW I use the little clamps I got from StewMac so long ago, and occasionally a stronger spring clamp in the waste.

I don’t even try to follow the exact curvature of the back radius. I just let the lining ride up til it fits snug.

I've built 2 dreadnaught boxes now and both had that problem. Now I can't wait for number 3. I like the idea of piecing them in to avoid the problem. Never know what I'm going to learn from this forum. Thank you.

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Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!

The 1" spring clamps shown above are great for tapered thickness linings. If you are using linings that maintain an equal thickness (except for a roundover on the exposed edge), my favorite clamps are these little Jorgensen ratchet clamps:

https://ponyjorgensen.com/product/jorge ... bar-clamp/

You have to search for the best prices. I use these little clamps for all sorts of tasks, including gluing in linings. They exert the right amount of pressure, and glue won't easily stick to them. You point the extra body length to the outside for most of the side, but point them to the inside around the waist. I haven't found anything that gives me this much control. They are also great for gluing binding onto fingerboards.

If you use regular exposed kerfed linings, there is really no reason to avoid cutting the linings into short sections. It makes it way easier to conform to the undulation of the back curves, which helps make sure the glue joints are solid.

If the back isn't too domed, another approach is to glue the lining on proud in the areas where the sides dip down for the dome—normally at the bouts—so the gluing surface for the plates is flat, then plane/bus-drive the linings for the dome. You'll need to remove a fair amount of material, and this only works with reverse linings (or ones that are not triangular in cross section), otherwise you might lose glue area for the plates. This approach probably looks a little strange to the practiced eye, but I don't think there's much of a hit taken on strength.

P. S. I just noticed this is what Ed Bond is showing.

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Even with tapered linings it’s not a problem…

I've always used spruce side braces on mine stemming from my first guitar which was an archtop so I piece in reverse kerf linings and glue a small piece on each end of the braces and trim to match. I use the same spring clamps as Ed.

Those look better than clothes pins

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Just a box with strings https://www.facebook.com/wadesguitarshoporcas

I think smaller sections of linings is a better method. The upper portion of the linings have a nice tight bond and I was able to clamp down a few spots I think it will be fine. It was the back plate lining that gave me the most trouble. I tapered down nearly an inch. Not to mention Kincades monstrosity mold I built that failed on me. I have since then built a 3" thick mold for my next build. I really like screw clamps so I may go that route. But I think I'm good to continue. I'll probably be whining about the neck or something else next, thanks guys.

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Just a box with strings https://www.facebook.com/wadesguitarshoporcas

I have used the sawdust/Tightbond method described with success for small gaps. I always use the smaller spring clamps that have a lot of clamping pressure. I check the edges with a mirror during clamp up and that helps but I occasionally still get a little gap sometimes.

IMG_7482 by Terence Kennedy, on Flickr

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.