Dumb question time - installing Gotoh 510s for the first time. Is it just a 10mm through hole the whole way? If so, why haven’t I been installing these all along?
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Fri Mar 01, 2024 11:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Gotoh Mini 510 install |
Dumb question time - installing Gotoh 510s for the first time. Is it just a 10mm through hole the whole way? If so, why haven’t I been installing these all along? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Fri Mar 01, 2024 11:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
They will still work, but it's better to have an 8mm (or 5/16") step to support the bushing, else the tilting force puts pressure on the washer and makes an indentation in the headplate and may blister the finish. A step drill can get you most of the way there. The cheap kind has 6,8,10,12mm steps, but the length of the 10mm step isn't quite deep enough so you have to clear out a little more wood somehow. I've been thinking about trying to grind off the 12mm step from my bit, but it might be easier just to pay the $30 for StewMac's version. Another option is to drill 10mm all the way through and 3D print some 10mm OD, 8mm ID spacers to go around the bushings. |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Fri Mar 01, 2024 12:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
That’s super helpful, thank you. I have the full set of these - https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-a ... g-reamers/ I drill 1/4” holes into the peg head at the start of the build so what I’ll do is start from the back of the peg head with the 10mm one and go the depth of the shaft and then flip and go with the 8.33mm from the top until I meet the first hole. Seem right? Brad Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | Ed Haney [ Fri Mar 01, 2024 12:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
DennisK wrote: They will still work, but it's better to have an 8mm (or 5/16") step to support the bushing, else the tilting force puts pressure on the washer and makes an indentation in the headplate and may blister the finish. A step drill can get you most of the way there. The cheap kind has 6,8,10,12mm steps, but the length of the 10mm step isn't quite deep enough so you have to clear out a little more wood somehow. I've been thinking about trying to grind off the 12mm step from my bit, but it might be easier just to pay the $30 for StewMac's version. Another option is to drill 10mm all the way through and 3D print some 10mm OD, 8mm ID spacers to go around the bushings. Yep! Agreed. |
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Fri Mar 01, 2024 1:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
I've been drilling a 5/16" hole from the front side of the headstock and then reaming out the hole from the backside with this StewMac reamer that's specifically for Gotoh tuners. https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/types-of-tools/reamers/rear-peghole-reamer/ It works great. |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Fri Mar 01, 2024 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
J De Rocher wrote: I've been drilling a 5/16" hole from the front side of the headstock and then reaming out the hole from the backside with this StewMac reamer that's specifically for Gotoh tuners. https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/types-of-tools/reamers/rear-peghole-reamer/ It works great. Makes sense. I’ll go that route but I’ll need to use the 8.33mm version of that tool for the front because I already have 1/4” holes drilled. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Fri Mar 01, 2024 2:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
I use this bit in my drill press, drilling from the back. Drill 5/16” holes on whatever your tuner layout is. Inexpensive and flawless! https://www.ebay.com/itm/403836388296 |
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Fri Mar 01, 2024 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
bcombs510 wrote: Makes sense. I’ll go that route but I’ll need to use the 8.33mm version of that tool for the front because I already have 1/4” holes drilled. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Oh yea, I didn't make the connection that you have 1/4" holes already drilled and that the pilot on the reamer you have is 1/4". That makes sense. One thing I'm wondering about is using the 10-mm reamer (9.98 mm) you have to go from the back. That's just a hair smaller in diameter than the reamer designed for Gotoh tuners (9.98 mm vs 10.08 mm). You might want to try it on scrap wood to see if the tuner shaft will fit in the hole. Maybe the difference isn't enough to matter though. |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Fri Mar 01, 2024 2:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
Thanks, Jay! Will report back on how it goes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Fri Mar 01, 2024 2:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Gotoh Mini 510 install |
Ok so for future folks… the below two peghead bushing reamers from StewMac will do the trick. I set the hillbilly depth stop on #2065 based on the tuner shaft length and drilled. Then on the other side used the #2061 and drilled until I met the other hole. Worked fine.     Oh, and Jay, I went to the “Tuner bushing and drill tools” kit and it appears I also have the one you recommended. I couldn’t use it this time because of the 1/4” pilot holes but good to know for the future.   Appreciate all the help!! Hope everyone has a productive weekend! Brad Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | kfish [ Sun Mar 03, 2024 7:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
DennisK wrote: A step drill can get you most of the way there. The cheap kind has 6,8,10,12mm steps, but the length of the 10mm step isn't quite deep enough so you have to clear out a little more wood somehow. I've been thinking about trying to grind off the 12mm step from my bit, but it might be easier just to pay the $30 for StewMac's version. I ground off the 12mm step on mine and it works great for me. I chucked it in the drill press and filed it off. Kent |
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| Author: | Michaeldc [ Sun Mar 03, 2024 9:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
I like the little chamfer it leaves on the back. If you don’t like it don’t drill as deep. https://www.ebay.com/itm/403836388296 |
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| Author: | bobgramann [ Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
To avoid surface breakout, I’ve been drilling a 3/32” pilot hole all the way through and then drilling from both sides into the middle. There’s no reason you can’t drill into the middle (or to any intermediate depth) with different sized bits. There’s no need for special bits. |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Sun Mar 03, 2024 3:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
J De Rocher wrote: I've been drilling a 5/16" hole from the front side of the headstock and then reaming out the hole from the backside with this StewMac reamer that's specifically for Gotoh tuners. https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/types-of-tools/reamers/rear-peghole-reamer/ It works great. I didn’t remember the measurements, but this is exactly what I use, too. It’s a very clean look. That said, I didn’t know the difference on my first few guitars and just drilled the .4” hole without any issues. One of those guitars has been with me 13-14 years or so. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Sun Mar 03, 2024 3:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
bobgramann wrote: To avoid surface breakout, I’ve been drilling a 3/32” pilot hole all the way through and then drilling from both sides into the middle. There’s no reason you can’t drill into the middle (or to any intermediate depth) with different sized bits. There’s no need for special bits. I like this. One of the things I liked about the SM reamer is the 1/4” guide that follows the pilot hole. I drill the 1/4” holes with a jig that uses drill bushings so I know they are straight. The SM reamer has no choice but to follow that hole. Sounds like you get the same thing with a smaller 3/32 pilot and a much cheaper reamer. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | bobgramann [ Sun Mar 03, 2024 5:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
The only reamer I use on the tuner holes is a cheap hardware store one that I use after all is done to break the bottom edge where the tuner barrel sometimes has a little fillet joining to the tuner. I do the pilot hole with a drill press so I know it’s square to the peghead. I would use a 1/16” bit for the pilot, but sometimes a grain irregularity will deflect it as it drills. Moving up to 3/32” seems to give the bit enough stiffness that the grain does deflect it and the hole is straight and square all the way through. I have never stepped the hole for the Gotoh tuners, only for tuners with press in ferrules. On one instrument, where I was experimenting with a finish, I had the tuner washer crack the finish. That was the only time I used that finish as a result. |
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| Author: | phavriluk [ Sun Mar 03, 2024 9:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
I've used the Irwin metric unibit also, a bit differently (ain't we all?) - - - I drill 8mm holes from the front and then use the unibit to counterbore the 10mm hole from the back. I found that the results work out just fine if I drill till the 12mm step just chamfers the 10mm hole, and whaddaya know, that's a good depth to allow the tuner to seat and the screwed-in bushing at the top gets supported. Even I got it right enough to work. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Mon Mar 04, 2024 1:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
Agree With Bob G. above we don't step either and the statement that the tuners will lean or come loose is not what we have found in considerable experience. This is yet another example of where the real world, people who install tuners every day, I did a set of Fender locking tuners this morning approach things differently. When you restring a guitar at least once a year check the tuners for tightness. I do this for every guitar I work on both front and back are snugged up, always. If a guitar is dry resnug the tuners they will have loosened up when the headstock shrank. Stepping won't prevent them coming loose, that's what we are for folks. You can go to this trouble but it's a waste of time and a solution looking for a problem. |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
Hesh wrote: Agree With Bob G. above we don't step either and the statement that the tuners will lean or come loose is not what we have found in considerable experience. Interesting. Haven't you ever seen one of these? |
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| Author: | bobgramann [ Mon Mar 04, 2024 4:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
That little bleb is why I didn’t use that finish anymore where it occurred. I hate finishes that come off. I want them to bond tightly to the guitar and I want each coat to bond tightly to the coat before. Since I’m making the guitar, I get to choose. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Tue Mar 05, 2024 4:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
DennisK wrote: Hesh wrote: Agree With Bob G. above we don't step either and the statement that the tuners will lean or come loose is not what we have found in considerable experience. Interesting. Haven't you ever seen one of these? Yes and your causation is wrong here. This is not caused generally by leaning tuners. This is likely two things adhesion issues for the finish and over tightening at some point and then the head stock shrinking in time. It's not because of leaning. Where we see what you have pictured is generally... with cheap, Asian imports with thick finish. We often also see blushing (moisture trapped under the finish) on instruments that show chipping around the tuner washers. The cause of this is not leaning tuners it's the guitar drying out, the finish is too thick and the woods may not have been seasoned and lastly the tuners have not been properly maintained, snugged and serviced. Our business has serviced close to 20,000 guitars now and we have never seen any issues caused by not stepping the holes with tuner installations. Not a one. You're wasting your time stepping them AND by complicating the installation operation you are increasing the risk of a mishap and damage. Additionally the tools required are not free. I don't see any harm in stepping if you accept the additional risks, time, expense and focus... This is a free country  FYI I did ask Dave about this yesterday after I posted and he asked me if this was from the OLF. When I said it was he rolled his eyes and said three words "waste of time." I pressed and he came back with he's been doing this all his life, nearly 30 years of professional Lutherie and he has never seen a damaged peg head from not stepping the tuners.
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| Author: | Hesh [ Tue Mar 05, 2024 4:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
After I posted this I had a recollection of a thread on the OLF in the time frame around 2006. It was a discussion of finish delamination around the tuner holes. I recall Howard Klepper maker of Dovetail Madness and Son Of DoveTail Madness turning us all on the idea of applying a very small amount of super glue to the edge of the tuner holes after the head stock is finished. This was a hedge against finish delamination in time from loosening tuners. I recall a Q-tip being the application tool and the warning.... don't drip the thing is already finished..... But again this is not because of leaning tuners it's because of all the reasons previously offered and combinations of same. |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Tue Mar 05, 2024 8:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
To summarize - a stepped hole is fine but unnecessary. Correct? The reason for the initial post was I went to the StewMac site and instead of multi step instructions and tool recommendations like most of the other tuners it just says “needs a 10mm hole” for the mini 510s. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
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| Author: | rbuddy [ Tue Mar 05, 2024 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
I've only installed one set of 510's and it was a while ago and can't remember my process. But on the same page at StewMac as 510's there is an ad for a stepped drill bit and a diagram showing the benefit of the stepped hole. Look here - https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/types-of-tools/drill-bits/1-step-peghole-drill-bit/ Suffering from a bit of OCD, I'd probably step the hole one way or another. I suppose you could find some 8mm ID X 10mm OD tubing and make spacers for the threaded bushing. If you wanted to drill a 10 mm hole and have something to center the bushing end. McMaster has some. |
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| Author: | Darrel Friesen [ Tue Mar 05, 2024 3:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gotoh Mini 510 install |
I was starting to think I maybe need to start stepping holes for these. I've used quite a few sets of the 510s as well as Schaller's for archtops and have never stepped the holes. No issues in a couple of decades at least. |
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