Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi!

Does anyone know any luthier schools or training programs near NYC? I searched online and through the Stewmac list and the closest that came up was Eastern School of fretted instrument repair in NJ. Is there anywhere closer or any other options I should consider? Any thoughts or experiences with Eastern School?

Thanks

Go west Stephen to Michigan to the Galloup School of Lutherie. Some of us were just there last week and it's the most impressive school I have ever seen in a beautiful setting.

MOST importantly Galloup grads are some of the top Luthiers in the world in my view. I know I have worked with one for 18 years now and he was one of the first or second ever Galloup grads.

Where else when discussing a 43 War Martin can you pull one out of a case and play it and pass it around. Or when interested in the circuit that Neil Young used in his tweed to record Rust Never Sleeps can you pull a couple of these original amps out of the pile and fire them up.

Galloup produces grads who have top level skills out of the shoot and many go on to do far better than the tech jobs that we see grads of other schools getting.

They may not be where you want to go to school but if this was something that I wanted to spend the rest of my life doing I would go to the Galloup School.

Bryan Galloup the owner and head Professor is one of the best and most knowledgeable Luthiers on the planet and most importantly he knows how to convey information to students and communicate and that means real value for the students and later their customers.

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Ann Arbor Guitars

Thanks, that sounds cool! I'll look into it.

I've done a ton of research on schools. Galloup and Roberto Venn are att he top of the list. Another version is taking small classes at. time. Like for instance Ann Arbor Guitars (Hesh and David) used to offer small classes to the forum users. I took a fretting class from them. Look around and see what works for you. I've taken a lot of classes from people all over the country. Also check out the GAL convention, Northwoods seminars, and other builders that offer classes. Robbie Obrien offers in person and online classes as well. I've built a guitar with Charles Fox and Robbie Obrien, polar opposites but both great teachers with a a lot of experience.

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The main problem I see with Galloup and Roberto Venn is the incredibly short duration (6 months), I don't think it's reasonable to assume one can go from beginner to operating as a professional in such a short amount of time. I have friends who graduated from the International Luthier School Antwerp which is a three year course and requires a rather high level of workmanship to graduate, all students are also required to intern with an established luthier for about a month and many wind up in apprenticeships with top makers after they graduate. Despite this very few of their alumni actually "make it" and become professional luthiers, I'd imagine its even more difficult if you only have 1/6 the training.

Stephen, I'd look up the episodes of Luthier on Luthier with Sam Guidry (episode 36) and Bryan Galloup (Episode 72). I'm linking them here, but you can also find them in Apple's podcast app. I frankly can't imagine a better opportunity for learning this craft than going to the Galloup School.

No amount of schooling can prepare you for the real world - and I'm not just talking about luthiery. That is because working for the general public can present you with more problems - instruments AND people - than you could possibly encounter in a school setting. It's just not broad enough.

Continual training with frequent refreshers is the best bet, along with belonging to a community of experienced and competent luthiers. This is one thing the internet excels at, but in person is always more rewarding.

With 45+ years at the bench I am STILL learning.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Yes Chris, Every day is a learning experience, in every area of life.

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Why be normal?

What are your goals for going to luthier school? Do you want to be able to make a living as a professional repair person or as a professional instrument builder? Or both? Maybe you want to become a skilled hobbyist builder? If you want to build, what instruments do you have in mind?

Knowing your goals might help find a best fit for you as far as schools go.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

The violin/bowed instrument world in general has much stronger traditions of formal training for luthiers, compared to the guitar world, with superb established schools to be found in Europe, USA, South America etc

But we’re cooler and better looking


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(Also - if you want a formal education, it is not ridiculous to train as a violin maker via a degree-length program and then move sideways into plucked instruments from there. Everyone I’ve met who graduated from a good violin making school came out with highly developed hand-tool chops and a deep understanding of instrument geometry, both of which are good foundations to build a career on in any area of luthiery.)

This is typical of an OLF thread someone asks a question and without having more of the blanks filled in we, that includes me, leap in to save the day with our interpretations of answers to their questions.

If the OP is interested in US based commercial Lutherie especially repair and working for one's self a traditional European Luthier school with course work in bowed instruments is a waste of time and money.

Someone who learns how to build a classical guitar and a violin but wants to hang out a shingle as a guitar repair person in my view the education is off the mark.

So Josh buddy you and I have maybe our first disagreement and it was bound to happen and no biggie. The US has schools like Venn and Galloup that are focused on employment after the education and that means employment where the jobs are, here in the US. They learn many things by actually doing and doing the kind of work our shop does that people pay us to do.

Chris is right that the real world is not something that education can properly prepare you for. Josh do you know that I go months without picking up a chisel? Yet I service around 50 - 60 guitars a month working part time now. The romance of endlessly toiling with sharp chisel in hand by candle light has been replaced with the 55 piece Craftsman mechanics set . Today I have some set screws to remove from a Fender P-Bass after the owner super glued them in to keep them from changing his settings from guitar vibrations. Not something taught in a bowed instrument course..... Stradivarius had never been turned on to Lock-tight.... Or when a famous musician glues themselves to their serial number 1 signature Martin and needs a Luthier on an emergency basis to save the finish of the guitar and get his skin from the emergency room off the top.... Also not taught in a classical guitar making course.

So with all this said let's back up and ask the OP just what kind of Loofier... do they wish to be? A violin sort, a guitar builder, a classical guitar builder, a guitar repair person who can swap pups, knows about Rikenbacker's tailpiece replacement program and knows when Martin started using a truss rod AND knows when that truss rod became two way.

It also has to be said that Lutherie can be a tough slog for many. It can be difficult to get established, you need some inherent ability or no amount of training in the world will get you there and the pay scale can be on the low side unless you are skilled, smart and can run a proper business for yourself.

So OP why are you asking what are you looking to do so maybe we can be more focused in our answers.

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Ann Arbor Guitars

Luthiery as a profession takes many forms; you can work for others or hang out your own shingle. You could focus on high-volume setup, maintenance and mods. Or you could tool up for lower-volume but more involved projects or walk a middle ground.

My business is focused on tackling fewer but larger, higher-revenue projects. A high volume business would not be viable where I’m located for a variety of demographic reasons. This month there’s several neck resets, making custom replacement bridges for a few vintage Gibsons and a Guild, I’m bidding a classical re-top tomorrow, along with the usual bridge reglues and crack repairs and refrets. I’ll have a chisel, knife, plane or scraper in my hand most of the time this month as I do every month and those skills will feed my family. No toiling by candle-light here though, just 36 double 3ft flouro fixtures that I should really get around to upgrading to LED at some point

All of this is just to say - there’s many ways to practice the craft in a commercial setting and three years of formal training in violin luthiery is probably a more useful background for much of the work I do than what I’m stuck with, which is formative years spent in the finance and tech world.

Think of it this way Hesh - with that kind of background even if a career in guitar repair flames out a fella could at least go get a job as a violin repair guy

I would not make a good violin repair guy unless you can teach me to play Purple Haze on a violin .

We found a business model that suits us. Dave takes in a limited number of "full nine yards" jobs which is a neck reset, refret, bridge reglue, new nut etc. all on a single instrument. But we found a huge volume of pup swaps, set-ups and more like acoustic pup installs that can be great paying jobs for us if we are efficient so we do them all.

So you're right Josh lots of ways to be a commercial, paid luthier. We went where the demand and money was.

PS: Don't tell anyone I am a huge classical music fan with hundreds of classical albums. Love jazz and blues too.

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Ann Arbor Guitars

as one of the lucky one , I had a long back ground in wood working , machining and tool and die repair. On top of the engineering and production experience. When I started building my tool making and machine skills were a big help. Martin trained me in their repair techniques and I have been doing this for over 25 years.
education can help you prepare but you need to know what your doing. If you get the proper training you can do well. Right now there is a demand for good repair people. Learn dovetails master fretting and repair and you will make a living. I make more money on repairs than building. I seem to have a name for working on the prewars and old Martins. I have a 34 0-18 a 1926 0-28 an a 1896 0-28 I am restoring . Not to mention I do about 2 resets a week. I also do bar frets ( hate these dang things ). So master these repairs. you will be able to pay bills and afford a nice living

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I didn't ask the question but do appreciate it, and the replies.
I got started too late in life, and it's taken me 5 years to build three guitar kits (and a Uke).
A lutherie school would certainly knock off a very large part of that time for someone wanting to pursue it for a career.

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Measure Twice,

Karl Borum

No such thing as "too late"! Robert Bouchet didn't build his first guitar until 1946 when he was 48 years old and he became a giant of the guitar world on the same level as Torres, Hauser, and Santos.

Exactly and another late in lifer Loofier here too Karl so I can relate I started this after I was 50ish....

A great Luthier school not only can greatly speed up the learning it can focus on what is in demand these days too. Lutherie changes a bit with the times and with the music.

We've had a BIG bump in resonator business in the last two weeks all because of one man Oliver Anthony and his awesome tune Rich men North or Richmond. Normally we would see two resonators a year in the last two weeks we've had a couple years worth of resonator business. Anthony is a tremendous talent by the way authentic as can be and his other tunes are top shelf too.

Anyway we get to be a very small part of the times changing as the music morphs too and that's pretty cool!

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Ann Arbor Guitars

Thanks all and sorry for the delay. I would like to go into repair work for fretted instruments ideally. Although building sounds fun too, I think I'd prefer repair. I wanna do it professionally as an independent person. But I was thinking some education could help me with the resume and help me get a job at an existing spot or store so I could build up the experience before going solo full time. Maybe some of the short term courses are a good idea! Any thoughts appreciated!

Cool that's what I thought you meant too so my comments remain as I intended them to be on the mark for you. A European school, multi year program not specialized in the kind of work that a Guitar Center may see.... would be very off the mark for the work available and that you seek.

Short term course work is not easy to find and I'm someone who has offered it in the past but no more. Short term course work in a real Luthier shop that has more business than they can handle is as real life in my view as you can get.

You will find people here from Robbie O'Brien to John Hall and others who offer classes in their shops and sometimes on line and these can be excellent too.

Get an eBay mule with a dovetail joint and take it apart and put it back together. People on forums like this one will help you with advice, I certainly will too.

My business partner got started taking apart old guitars and building shredders. He went to Galloup, stayed and taught there, worked at Elderly and then hung out his own shingle. I apprenticed with him for three years after retiring from another career. We hung out our shingle about 12 years ago and I just retired to part time again....

Repair work can be a lot of fun and profitable too. Some basic business education is helpful too and most importantly learning when to say no an decline. The number one reason the Luthiers who fail do so is.... was trying to be all things to all folks. That is a huge subject for another day.

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Ann Arbor Guitars

Thanks Hesh! I've bought a couple of guitars to repair so it's good to know I'm on the right track there.

Charles Fox has a short term repair and set up class that Kerry Char and Charles teach. Both of these luthiers are exceptionally talented.

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