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| Gluing fretboard using epoxy? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=55328 |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gluing fretboard using epoxy? |
Durero wrote: bluescreek wrote: epoxy is not repairable Barry Daniels wrote: I have taken off epoxy glued fretboard and they come off easier and cleaner than Titebond. I think you're both right, depending on the epoxy formulation. I'm sure I remember Rick Turner posting about using epoxy for fretboards and emphasizing that we can't make generalizations about "epoxy" because there are so many different formulations with widely varying characteristics that we have to name the specific epoxy formula for statements about it to have any meaning. I think I remember Rick saying that there are formulations that let go at lower temperatures than Tight Bond, and I assume there are others designed to withstand much higher temperatures. Thank You Leo this is our experience too, RIP Rick, not all epoxies are the same by any means and there are even high temp epoxies specifically formulated to not release unless the heat is higher than the combustion temp of wood. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sat Jan 21, 2023 2:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gluing fretboard using epoxy? |
What I wanted to mention like the broken 33 1/3 record that I am that one of the reasons why we never fret the board off the guitar is it's expected in our world that the best practice is to level AND even further shape the board on the guitar after all the gluing has been done. Humps and valleys if they are present are eliminated, fall-away is milled in and we even mill in minor treble side relief and more relief on the bass side. When properly prepared the frets once added need only be kissed a bit to also have the shape of the board that we milled into it. This method I'm describing above is also key if you are using stainless because your slog milling the stainless frets is greatly reduced to almost nothing if you shape the board first. If we have to deepen some fret slots no biggie that's a two minute thing unless there are a bunch of them. And again broken record here 1) the existence of a truss rod is super helpful here in the shaping of the board and 2) the existence of a double action rod is even more insurance that we have complete control over the process. Don't know how thick your inlays are Dan but if you make them thick enough milling the board first should not be a problem. Great looking ax too, looks like it's going to be sweet! |
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| Author: | Woodie G [ Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gluing fretboard using epoxy? |
Barry Daniels wrote: For those that use water based glues and are using measures to keep the distortion to a minimum I would ask, why not use epoxy? One repair person's opinion: We used West 105/205, fish, HHG, and (on one customer guitar because he stamped his little foot and insisted) that universal wood contaminant, Titebond. Earlier in the thread, I mentioned the relative difficulty in removing boards glued with each type of glue, but did not get into details on the level of heating and related PITA factor (Particularly Intense Thinking Required). - Epoxy and fish require a lot of heat... always an issue for inlaid and bound boards... a lot of prep and masking with foil goes into keeping the binding, some markers (looking at you, Gibson!), and epoxy- , PVA, or HHG-set inlays from moving around. A fretboard removal with hide and reglue is a fairly quick operation... add all that decoration and ignore heat management, and you'll be redoing some inlay work or - worse yet - rebinding. - Titebond and epoxy are thermoplastic glues... heat them and they creep (or in the case of Titebond, don't heat them and they creep...just slower). HHG and fish may require nearly as much heat as epoxy (and yes - Titebond transitions at much lower temp... blessing and a curse), but they do not creep under load, and instead release prior to creating that summer treat we repair people all know and love... freshly baked-in-trunk guitar. - Further, when many epoxies are heated after curing, then cooled (i.e., post-cured to raise the transition temperature), they will require even more heat and higher temperatures for future removal... this can occur with an unsuccessful/partial removal attempt or when a full length fretboard heater is not available. This is another one of those experiences which - when it happens - builds both character and a colorful vocabulary. - Finally, post fretboard removal, HHG and fish are a (hot water) wipe away from fretboard reapplication. Titebond needs a couple applications of acetic acid and a good scrape, while epoxy wins the Luthier's Drudgery Pennant with significant prep required with sandpaper on a surface plate/dead flat block or touch-up with a plane (watch that head plate... oops!). For those that build and don't have to address a dozen or so fretboard removals a year, the considerations may change, but us repair people hope that you'll take pity on us and use adhesives that are inherently service- and repair-friendly. |
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Sun Jan 22, 2023 4:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gluing fretboard using epoxy? |
I made a good recovery on my humped neck. I set the truss rod in the relaxed position. I alternated my short and long radius beams to address the hump as I sanded down. I painted the inlay cavities with whiteout before gluing, but I see no evidence of thin shell. I’m super happy and thank everyone for the help! Dan |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Sun Jan 22, 2023 6:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Gluing fretboard using epoxy? |
I wonder if the whiteout would affect the glue bond? I know the use it in knife making to prevent the metal from sticking to a canister. I have treated semi-transparent shell by painting the back of the shell with a black sharpie. |
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