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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:55 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:50 pm
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Location: Goodrich, MI
First name: Ken
Last Name: Nagy
City: Goodrich
State: MI
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I don't know much about the finer points of guitar building. I'm making a new bridge for my arch top, because the G has to be angled with the b and e, and not with the E. A and D. It is like 3-4 mm too short. I checked the clearance that I had so that I could get the new one close, and dial it in. I don't have the convenience of the height adjusting screws.

Then I wondered if the string clearance would be the same if I just had the strings tuned down; still straight, but not stretched with tension, It would be easier to do if you don't have to keep tuning them down. I checked, and it seemed that they were about .5 mm closer to the frets with no tension.

What causes that? Is it a combination of things?

An observation:
Making a bridge for an archtop is FAR MORE DIFFICULT than making one for a violin. It should look cool, but it is a lot of work.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:28 pm 
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Contributing Member
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Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:42 pm
Posts: 1701
First name: John
Last Name: Parchem
City: Seattle
State: Wa
Zip/Postal Code: 98177
Country: USA
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Status: Amateur
The guitar bends under load. The more the load the more it bends. If you are doing any setup the guitar needs to be tuned to pitch.

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These users thanked the author johnparchem for the post: Hesh (Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:51 am)
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:51 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
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First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
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My understanding is that the top of an archtop is slightly depressed under load - I remember reading an article about a mandolin builder measuring that deflection. Liutaio Mottola has a little discussion about the downforce, its basically two times the sine of the break over angle times the string tension.

https://www.liutaiomottola.com/formulae/downforce.htm

He also has a great little wizard for calculating the amount of compensation needed for different string compositions - I've compared to doing with at tuner and its pretty darn close.

https://www.liutaiomottola.com/formulae ... sation.htm



These users thanked the author Freeman for the post: Hesh (Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:52 am)
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:41 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:50 pm
Posts: 1112
Location: Goodrich, MI
First name: Ken
Last Name: Nagy
City: Goodrich
State: MI
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I used that calculator to figure out string pressures on the belly and the neck when I was designing the archtop. Like a big dummy, I didn't write it all down on a page in my notebook and label it. Bowed instruments have a greater percentage of pressure going into the top, and less on the neck than a guitar. I didn't look at the compensation one before.

I don't know what I was thinking. It would be impossible to say that the strings will pull the nut up 2 mm, and 1 mm shorter; and the bridge will sink 1 mm, but the compression on the body lengthwise will raise the bridge 1 mm. All of those things could happen, but unless you are making the same model of the same woods, and test the pieces with quantitative deflection tests; each instrument will be different.

Thinking about it; something I did when I designed it, but didn't do yesterday; I guess I have something about what I just said, but I have no idea about the actual numbers. But having movement is good. Tension, to a point, will bring out more sound. I do have a violin with a very heavy, strong, flamed birch back with a very light, .28 sg Engelmann top. With medium Dominant strings it sounded choked. I put on lights, and it is the easiest to play violin I've made. Just about 12% less tension.

I set the bridge somewhat yesterday; still WAY too massive; but playing it, the treble seemed stronger. On one piece especially, an alteration between paired notes on the e and b could not contend with the thumb on the open D. They sounded stronger, I usually had to really push them. Maybe the D is just not booming. I won't know until it is finished. I have to finish it, I miss playing and hearing it.

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