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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:33 am 
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Mahogany
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Finally had some time to wet sand and buff this body out last night. Water based lacquer over stained Quilt maple OM. Engleman top. Neck is maple too. I’m happy with it so far!

One thing that has been bothering me is how I can see the figure/grain in my finish after it sits for a bit. Almost like the figure is projecting in the finish and making the wood move. I tell myself it’s because I got it so thin! Ha. But it’s probably bad sanding technique as I buff it out.

Thanks for looking! Image

ImageImageImageImageImage


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These users thanked the author Luthier1975 for the post: Durero (Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:52 pm)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:37 am 
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I like it! which waterbased product did you use, and how did you apply it?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:14 am 
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Mahogany
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Thanks Don.

I use JE Mosers (from Woodworkers Supply) waterbased spray lacquer. I put three coats on per day for three days with flat sanding in between. I use a Fuji HVLP setup to spray. Wet sand starting with 800 after it has cured for a while, up to 2000 grit. Buff out on my wheel.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:39 am 
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very nice!

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These users thanked the author johnparchem for the post: Luthier1975 (Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:09 pm)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:27 pm 
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What lubricant are you using to wet sand? How hot does the surface get when buffing?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:39 pm 
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Thanks John!

Hey Chris, love my binding cutting jig! I use water when I wet sand with just a drop of Dawn soap in it. The finish gets pretty hot while buffing, I am always moving around and not just rubbing one spot but it does still get somewhat hot. How hot is too hot and how do I know?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:43 pm 
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I'm with Chris, you're probably getting it too hot. My feeling is that the finish expands with the heat, you buff it flat, and then as it cools it settles in the wood. This can happen with porefill too. You buff it dead flat and come back an hour later to see the pores have sunk. Which is a look I actually like, but...



These users thanked the author meddlingfool for the post: Luthier1975 (Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:07 pm)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:03 pm 
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Looking good



These users thanked the author dpetrzelka for the post: Luthier1975 (Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:55 pm)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:57 pm 
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Mahogany
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meddlingfool wrote:
I'm with Chris, you're probably getting it too hot. My feeling is that the finish expands with the heat, you buff it flat, and then as it cools it settles in the wood. This can happen with porefill too. You buff it dead flat and come back an hour later to see the pores have sunk. Which is a look I actually like, but...



I totally can believe that reasoning. I know I get it hot/warm? but I didn’t think I was too hot. I don’t have very much water based experience. I can buff longer and easier, less pressure, next time and see what happens. I know I’m dead flat when I wet sand.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 7:30 pm 
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Love figured maple! Nothing can beat that bling!



These users thanked the author Glen H for the post: Luthier1975 (Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:51 am)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:27 pm 
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If you use water when wet sanding a waterbased finished, the surface is softened since you're essentially using that finish's solvent as a lubricant. That's why, when I used to spray EM6000, I switched to dry sanding. You can see what you're doing better and don't have the issues adding water back into the mix creates. (For what it's worth, I still dry sand the poly I currently use).

Also, waterbased lacquer is easily effected by heat. It needs to stay cool when buffing. Not only will the heat move the finish around and can increase the chance for burn throughs, it will also move the wood underneath it.

Those would be my best guesses as to why you're feeling wood grain after everything settles out.

Luthier1975 wrote:
Hey Chris, love my binding cutting jig!


Glad to hear you like your Ultimate Binding Jig!

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These users thanked the author Chris Ensor for the post: Luthier1975 (Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:51 am)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:53 am 
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Mahogany
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Dry sanding? I can try it. Do you go through way more paper? That's the only downside I can see.

Thanks everyone for your compliments and also for the sanding and buffing advice.

I guess for water based finish buffing you just move around quicker, not staying in one place very long to avoid heat? Use less pressure? Both? Ha. I will try that on my next one!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:57 am 
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Luthier1975 wrote:
I guess for water based finish buffing you just move around quicker, not staying in one place very long to avoid heat? Use less pressure? Both? Ha. I will try that on my next one!


What is your buffer setup? RPM, HP, buff size, material, etc....


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:51 am 
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Luthier1975 wrote:
Dry sanding? I can try it. Do you go through way more paper? That's the only downside I can see.

Thanks everyone for your compliments and also for the sanding and buffing advice.

I guess for water based finish buffing you just move around quicker, not staying in one place very long to avoid heat? Use less pressure? Both? Ha. I will try that on my next one!


With good paper, I don't go thru that much doing it dry.

When I was buffing water based lacquer, I was running my buffer as slow as I could to get a full gloss. And yes, you want to move around and not over work a single area. It's slow going at times.

Another thing to note is the stability of the pore filler used under the top coat. I started with z-poxy but found it moved too much from the heat of buffing. When I switched to west systems epoxy, I noticed a dramatic reduction in pore sinking and joint lines showing up- as in now I don't see any.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:57 am 
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Mahogany
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Thanks again Chris. I was going to try west systems epoxy to fill my next one anyway so this is good news.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:35 pm 
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Very nice!

When do the strings go on?



These users thanked the author Michaeldc for the post: Luthier1975 (Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:34 pm)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:25 pm 
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Beautiful guitar with a lovely finish!!!

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These users thanked the author Joe Beaver for the post: Luthier1975 (Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:34 pm)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:19 pm 
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Wicked cool neck


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These users thanked the author SnowManSnow for the post: Luthier1975 (Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:34 pm)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:36 pm 
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Mahogany
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Michaeldc wrote:
Very nice!

When do the strings go on?



I have to put one more day worth of coats of the front of the headstock, had some problems that I had to fix. So a few weeks until it cures well. Soon though! I bent those sides in 2009 and braced the top a year ago, so it has been a long time coming.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:03 am 
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Walnut
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Very nice grain, color and gloss! I've been using the EM6000 WB lacquer from Target Coatings with an inexpensive Harbor Freight HVLP system. A luthier friend suggested dry sanding...he's had some problems with wet-sanding even after weeks of cure time. I dry-sanded and polished with micro-mesh papers...also dry. I think the finished product was better with dry instead of wet-sanding. I finished the process with the micro-mesh polishing compound. The hand-polishing takes time but has worked for me. No need to go fast since my work is only for fun. This one was made for my nephew.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:11 am 
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Here's the front side...in use by my nephew!


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