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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:43 pm 
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Koa
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meddlingfool wrote:
Yes, a sharp chisel is your pal in this. Setting it so that your fret plane kisses the top of your 3/8 bridge should be fine. Start by cutting about a half inch behind the FB, then an inch, then 1.5" etc, rather than trying to get the whole cut in one go. Hope that makes sense. Then floss as needed to clean up the joint. Try to be very careful about removing the same amount of wood off each side so your centreline stays good.

It is much easier to bring a neck back. For that reason, I always set my necks about 1mm forward at rough fit. Then, right before I glue the neck on, I floss it to the exact angle, both perfecting the joint and the angle at the same time.

Mind you, I use a bolt on neck. If you're using a dovetail and have to change the anlke, then you have to mess around with shims to get it right as well...

Ed,
It is bolt on
Thanks for the clarification


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:43 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Also, you don't need to remove much material to get the angle change you want, so go slow.

There is a way to calculate exactly how much to remove to get the change you want, but that knowledge is beyond me.

I imagine Woodie might be able to help in that regard...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:58 pm 
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meddlingfool wrote:
Also, you don't need to remove much material to get the angle change you want, so go slow.

There is a way to calculate exactly how much to remove to get the change you want, but that knowledge is beyond me.

I imagine Woodie might be able to help in that regard...


I think I had found something at StewMac quite a while ago to help determine how much to remove. Check out Dan's video, I didn't look at it all but I think he deals with the same issue you have
https://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Trade_Secrets/Fixing_the_angle_of_an_acoustic_neck_joint.html

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:23 pm 
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meddlingfool wrote:
Also, you don't need to remove much material to get the angle change you want, so go slow.

There is a way to calculate exactly how much to remove to get the change you want, but that knowledge is beyond me.

I imagine Woodie might be able to help in that regard...

I talked to John earlier and he explained it. I wrote down the summary numbers :)
A post up there explains it too ^^


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:23 pm 
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SteveSmith wrote:
meddlingfool wrote:
Also, you don't need to remove much material to get the angle change you want, so go slow.

There is a way to calculate exactly how much to remove to get the change you want, but that knowledge is beyond me.

I imagine Woodie might be able to help in that regard...


I think I had found something at StewMac quite a while ago to help determine how much to remove. Check out Dan's video, I didn't look at it all but I think he deals with the same issue you have
https://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Trade_Secrets/Fixing_the_angle_of_an_acoustic_neck_joint.html

Thanks
This may be a great guitar after all :)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:37 pm 
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It won't be even 1/32nd of an inch and you will need to taper that to zero at the heel cap. Is it a butt joint or M&T? If it's a butt and you have bolt holes in the face of the heel then be very careful using a chisel as you my tear out wood around the holes. Probably no big deal since hopefully no one will ever see it again but still.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:51 pm 
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When I do a butt joint, the inserts are recessed about 1/8”, and the face relieved by about 3/32” leaving only the edges touching..


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:07 pm 
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jfmckenna wrote:
It won't be even 1/32nd of an inch and you will need to taper that to zero at the heel cap. Is it a butt joint or M&T? If it's a butt and you have bolt holes in the face of the heel then be very careful using a chisel as you my tear out wood around the holes. Probably no big deal since hopefully no one will ever see it again but still.

mT joint.
Thanks for the clarification
Yes
I’m trying to mentalize (new word) how to get an accurate mark I can cut to


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:32 pm 
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So with the MT joint then using the chisel angle it in so you remove wood closest to the tenon. You only need the outer 1/8th inch of the cheeks to be flush with the head block and sides anyway so it's ok if you screw up a bit. Then when you get to that 1/8th inch edge you start to be real careful. Then mount the neck and floss it with some good cloth like sand paper.

Slow and steady wins the race here.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:40 pm 
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And now a word about safety: no matter what, DO NOT try to hold the heel steady with your hand while trimming with a chisel. Always DO use a jig to secure the work piece.

That is all.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:19 pm 
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FWIW, I don't mark it at all. Just a few careful cuts, check, repeat...



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:39 pm 
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meddlingfool wrote:
FWIW, I don't mark it at all. Just a few careful cuts, check, repeat...

I got it to 3/8”:) from the top of the soundboard to the line over frets:)
Will that work?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:51 pm 
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George L wrote:
And now a word about safety: no matter what, DO NOT try to hold the heel steady with your hand while trimming with a chisel. Always DO use a jig to secure the work piece.

That is all.

I always clamp it in a vise


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:52 pm 
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Number 15 is looking promising again ha.
I spent all day worried about that.
I appreciate all the help


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:04 pm 
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George L wrote:
And now a word about safety: no matter what, DO NOT try to hold the heel steady with your hand while trimming with a chisel. Always DO use a jig to secure the work piece.

That is all.


Don’t even think about showing that pic again!

Hope it all healed up good.

B

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:11 pm 
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Here's the formula as stated in Bill Cory's book on building martin kits.
Lay a straightedge on the frets.
"A" is the gap between the straightedge and the bridge crown(above or below).
"B" is the height of the neck heel, base to bottom of fretboard.
"C" is the length from the neck heel to the center of saddle slot.
(AXB) / C = X.
X is the amount to remove from the top or bottom of the neck heel tapering to "0" at the other end. Got it?

I've run a piece of tape from the objective to the opposite point to sorta define the line. :)


Last edited by CarlD on Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:17 pm 
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CarlD wrote:
Here's the formula as stated in Bill Cory's book on building martin kits.
Lay a straightedge on the frets.
"A" is the gap between the straightedge and the bridge crown(above or below).
"B" is the height of the neck heel, base to bottom of fretboard.
"C" is the length from the neck heel to the center of saddle slot.
(A+B) / C = X.
X is the amount to remove from the top or bottom of the neck heel tapering to "0" at the other end. Got it?

I've run a piece of tape from the objective to the opposite point to sorta define the line. :)

So C is scale length


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:58 pm 
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Oops I wrote it wrong..... (A X B) / C = X. Corrected above.
No, C is the distance from the center of the saddle slot to where the neck contacts the body.



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:52 am 
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here is a tip that doesn't require math
since you have to remove wood from the upper part take a 1/32 shim place at the heel and just snug your bolt , measure , if you need more ad another shim. Once the neck is in position scribe a mark on both sides of the neck BINGO

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:06 am 
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bluescreek wrote:
here is a tip that doesn't require math
since you have to remove wood from the upper part take a 1/32 shim place at the heel and just snug your bolt , measure , if you need more ad another shim. Once the neck is in position scribe a mark on both sides of the neck BINGO

John I did get it fixed nicely to just under 3/8” at the saddle.
Thanks for the help yesterday


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:29 am 
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Great to hear! As already mentioned, most acoustic 14 fretters will work out to about 1/3 * the needed change, or about 1/32" or a bit more.

This is another case of using similar right triangles...I always love when something I learned in grade school comes in handy (besides that whole sharing business and Billy Verner picks his nose and eats it). This is also one that can be done graphically on the bench top with a framing square, although it's a little more accurate to do the math, or just do as Mr. Hall suggested and use some shim stock or veneer to mock up the change.

I'm hoping the fretboard extension angle with the top worked out as well.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:24 am 
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Bri wrote:
George L wrote:
And now a word about safety: no matter what, DO NOT try to hold the heel steady with your hand while trimming with a chisel. Always DO use a jig to secure the work piece.

That is all.


Don’t even think about showing that pic again!

Hope it all healed up good.

B


+1



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:55 am 
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Great tip using a shim.


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