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Just Curious, what does everyone do with all the guitars they build? Do you sell them, give them away? I am planning on building a few more, but I already have 5 guitars right now. I don’t really need anymore but don’t wanna stop building.

I think a natural progression is to keep them, then start giving some away to family and friends, then start selling some for prices that might feel on the low side, then start selling for prices that better reflect the value of the instrument. I’m still in the keep and give some away stage, but I’m getting close to the sell at low prices stage.

I think what Don said is probably a common progression.

But if you have only five you probably still need a nylon crossover, a baritone, a resonator, a weissenborn and a multiscale fan fret. Got a 12-string yet? Bouzouki, lute, uke (various). I am not saying that I have these myself. But any of them could be the next thing that I really need to make.

my first year I made 14 and gave a few away and sold some for what I had in it. Now I make about 20 a year . This has been my living for the last 10 years

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
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A few more thoughts:

If having guitars is the goal, you can stop whenever you have what you want. But if the goal is to learn how to build guitars (not just good guitars, but truly great guitars), I think you just keep building, and make the job of finding homes for the guitars secondary, at least for a while. I think that most of the important skills one can learn in this field are best learned by doing them yourself, repeatedly. So, the cost of materials for each “learning” guitar are the tuition fees, if you want to look at it this way. If you can make someone else happy by giving them one of your learning guitars, or selling it to them for a great price, that’s more gravy for you, on top of the educational value that came from building it.

my plan is to donate them to kids who can't afford one via the local schools music program, once the kids and grandkids are supplied...

I just donated one of my earlier builds to a program called "Guitars For Vets" or "G4V". Look it up and contact the rep for your area and I'm sure they will be grateful.

I think for many people a path to selling them for a living isn't realistic. I'm in a unique position in that I've been involved as a student and eventually as a teacher at a vo-tech community college that had a robust woodworking and even lutherie program. I have probably seen 200+ people get into building guitars over the last 20 years. Sadly, I can't think of a single person who didn't eventually move on to something else.

Most people build themselves every guitar they can imagine wanting, giving a few away to friends and family (which is surprisingly hard), give a few to schools and charities (even harder) and eventually the idea of building another dreadnaught with unique woods or inlay loses its appeal. Younger people move into more promising micro-fabrication and the retired folks tend to rediscover their love of bass fishing.

IMHO this is not a "bad" thing. This idea that everything we put our energy into has to eventually lead to income or a business is a weird cultural phenomenon that would have been foreign to our ancestors a few hundred years ago. I got caught up in it myself, and have been building three or four guitars a year to sell for the last half dozen years. Guess what? I'm not sure I love lutherie the way I used to. I find that I would rather actually PLAY a guitar than go cut a binding channel on yet another guitar.

So to the OP, I don't know how many you have made. In all likelihood your interest in building them will wane before you run out of wall space to hang them. That may seem a negative thing to say, but I mean it in a positive way. Keep building them for the love of building them. Don't worry too much about what you are going to do with your 25th or 30th guitar. Chances are it will sort itself out before you even get there.

This is well said!

I've been fortunate in that every guitar I've built was for friends who were happy to pay for materials. I've got 2 going to the summer camp my kids have been going to for many years and after that, I might have 2 or 3 more friends who might want one....
Even for person guitars, of which I only have my first (which hangs on my shop wall, cause the bridge just doesn't want to stay glued on), I think I'd only "need" 2-3 at the most. I suspect sometime in my 60's I'll just stop building guitars (I'm 49 now) and that'll be fine I think...

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Continuing to build guitars at a modest pace while, having built as big a guitar rack as my living space will accommodate, I'm also dealing with the accumulation issue. As I've been experimenting with various design features (headstock-to-tailstock internal bracing to free the soundboard, floating fretboard extensions, adjustable necks, etc.) I've taken to rebuilding earlier efforts with new tops and necks, preserving the sides and back (mostly).

I'm with Don.

Eventually you'll need to sell some unless you have unlimited spare cash. And as you sell some you can invest it in the shop for better tools to make better guitars faster to sell.

Just be brutal in your self criticism, and price according to result, not what a handmade guitar 'should' be priced at.

Keep the prices down, skip the extraneous details to a minimum, and focus on the playability and technical aspects of a guitar. Make sure they're set up well, and your fretting and neck angles and such are correct. You'd be better served building more repetitions of simple guitars that building fewer fancy guitars. Save the braz and abalone until they're the last things to look to...

Oh, Amen to that!

What you are saying is that we have an unhealthy tendency to say to ourselves: "gee, I like doing this. I think I will try to do it in exchange for money." We have that tendency even if making money off that endeavor is not a good business plan. And that's a weird cultural phenomenon. I completely agree.

A close corollary: Our society's unhealthy tendency to fall for the whole "do what you love and the money will follow" nonsense. What if you love eating and watching porn? Is the money going to follow if you do that? In my opinion, this is some of the WORST advice one human being can give to another. The better advice for helping people pick careers is much more refined, but it doesn't fit on a bumper sticker. I'll share it via PM if anybody wants/needs it. I won't preach about it here.

I can highly recommend building guitars as an enjoyable endeavor. That recommendation has absolutely nothing to do with making money off of the sales of the guitars one builds. If you stick with the hobby, and get pretty good at it, and want to make some SIDE money at it, that's cool. I think that is where I am headed. But if a person I cared about told me they wanted to get into making guitars to support themselves, I would sit them down and have a long talk with them about it. Do some people make it work? Yes. Do a lot of people make it work? No. Are there a lot of people who try to do that and eventually drop out of it? Yes. Would those people have been happier if they had just stuck to doing it for fun or for a little side money? Probably yes. But they got sucked into making bad business decisions based on the romance of "doing what they love." I'm all for doing what you love. Do it as much as you can. Just don't count on being able to make a living doing that thing you love.

I'm not at the point of worrying about selling guitars. I have no delusions that I will some how make money from it. It would be nice to, some day, bring in some money to help cover the cost of my hobby by selling some guitars thus keeping them from piling up.

I don't want to hijack the thread here, but I struggle with figuring out how I would make that transition. From a legal standpoint when do I have a business that will require me to insure my home shop as a business and keep track of income (even though it would be a net loss) on my taxes. If I am bringing in money, does that automatically make it a business and and get me into trouble if I take a loss every year? And lots of other questions I have not yet brought myself to ask. . .

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

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Yeah, Bryan. I checked with my insurance guy about insuring my guitar collection and my shop and tools. Turns out business insurance is not available in the high wildfire area I live, but homeowners will cover additional buildings and personal property items (just make sure your limits are high enough). Therefore, no sales! So I just give them to grandkids and recently give 4 to Camp Fire victims.

Bryan--

There are books addressing those exact questions at your local bookseller. Lots of people have side gigs and home businesses, and they all have to figure out the same things. I recommend you go shop for a "dummies" guide (type of book, not a comment on you!) that can address this.

I have to be careful to not get into giving advice over the internet (I'm a lawyer). But, I will say that you need to research things like: creating a separate corporate entity; paying taxes; buying various types of insurance; registering names; all of that.

After you do some basic reading, it does make sense to get a local lawyer to help you get it all set up right. A bit of money up front avoids big problems later.

With 4 grandkids I have a built in customer base.
The pay off can't be bought with cash.

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Havent Decided Yet .

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Great thread. I've got a rack full in my living room and a LOT of ideas I still want to try just because I like to try new stuff. I have 3 on the bench with no idea where they might end up but will figure it out after they are done. Might give them away. Might sell for material costs but have also settled on "fewer fancy guitars" and trying to concentrate on playability and good sound (pun?) set up, fretting etc. because I've discovered without those foundational aspects any guitar won't last long on top of another's go to guitar list.

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I am with the majority here. I kept my first fully-built guitar and have given away most of the guitars thus far. I get lucky here and there and get a small commission or a family member who is ok with paying for cost of materials.

I would love to sell my guitars at a retail price, but then it becomes work. The few commissions I did have definitely sucked the fun out of building guitars a bit. So I decided I like to build things at my own pace with my own creative license. Maybe some day I can drop a couple guitars a year off at the local music store to sell. I know I don't have room to keep them all, though.

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Thanks Don!

This is all stuff I haven't been interested enough to tackle yet. Hearing you reinforce it makes me glad I still have a number of future projects I intend to gift away or donate.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

This is me all over...

I like to try something different with each build. Whether it's a different shape, venetian / florentine Cutaway, soundport, arm bevel, and different configurations of those or wood combinations. I made one for my brother, one for my wife (excuse to make another one), and gave one to an old friend. But, they are piling up.

When I have told people I make guitars the first thing they ask is, "Do you sell them". Then it's things like, "You need to go into business". That's where this comes in... My response is always, "I build them because I love the craft". I think that many folks need to find sources of income. I am retired (no children) and fortunate that I don't need to sell for income (as meager as it might be). Besides, I think it would suck the joy out of it.

I admit I'm conflicted with the idea of selling them. I'm worried my early builds are not good enough (although, really not bad...) and my recent ones are too good to let loose of because I love to play them and show them to people. I'm also worried that after selling one, the purchaser might come back with a complaint. And of course, the issue of tracking expenses and tax considerations. I think that I could sell a few as a hobbyist without worrying about tax considerations, but I would not want to get into a business situation. So, maybe I'm at giving a few away and selling a few.

I consider myself a serious amateur and I think I am making decent instruments. The craft continues to be challenging to me. I think I could be happy continuing to hone my skills and making beautiful and even better sounding builds. But, then the pile rises...

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

I’m only 11 in. My son has a few. I have a few that I plan on recycling some parts from:)
Other than that I’ve sold them. Until now I’m content knowing I may loose money on a build when it’s all said and done, but if I can spend a few hundred bucks and it keep me busy a few months then I’m good.

This week I got my very first “commission” and earlier sold a guitar to break even.

Overall I can say building is a very enjoyable experience for me. Im happy to get better by building right now and that’s happening little by little:) I smile when I walk into the shop, and I want to keep it that way.

Peace


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They make great gifts. My boys have some. I gave one to my 80+ yr old father in law. Included a how to play book and a tuner. He’s never as much as strummed it one time but loves it anyway. He has 16 brothers and sisters and whenever one of them drops by (or one of his dozens of cousins) it’s the first thing he shows them. Some of them can play. I built one (1) commission and won’t do another. Made it seem like a job. I’ve already got a job. I’ll keep finding them homes for cheap or free.

Wow that’s a lot! I made only one 7 years ago under an experienced luthier (Mark Wahl) and it’s held up wonderfully so far. I just started getting back into building and I’m having trouble finishing one in a year. I guess having 4 kids, 2 of which are under 2. Businesses to run and animals (just bought a Burnese Mountain dog on the way back from Key west on a whim lol.

I’m looking forward to get the ball rolling again with building.

As to your question:
My mentor says I should be selling say a simple dread style guitar for around 3k. Of course that all depends on the woods and amenities.

I personally think that’s a bit high for myself considering I’ve only built one....under supervision of course. I think it depends on the market and how you fall into it?


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I have no idea what your mentor means by “should”. $3k is what top of the line mainstream factory dreads sell for, but no luthier could make a living at that price point.

Take Bluescreek above. 20 guitars a year is MAXIMUM production for a one man shop. That’s assuming he is a one man shop. That would be $60k gross, or probably in the range of $45k after costs of materials, rent/amortization of shop space, and tools. If he has any help at all either in the shop or doing bookkeeping/admin half of that profit he would pay to someone else. You can’t begin to live and raise a family on that today, in the US at least.

To be able to live on 20 guitars a year you really need to be priced at twice that. Not coincidentally, if you look at successful boutique builders who have survived the test of time they usually are priced well north of $3k.

But just because you need $6k-$10k per guitar to make a viable business doesn’t mean the market has to accommodate you. Selling at that level takes not only excellent build quality but extremely sophisticated marketing. That is a tiny niche of guitar buyers, and a shrinking market at that.

So “should” makes no sense to me. Perhaps your mentor meant that is the most you are likely to get given factory pricing and the general state of the economy. The truth is that as an unknown hobby luthier the market probably sees your guitars as desirable as a good no name Chinese made guitar. Especially if you are building Martin or Gibson clones. I have found some extra interest and willingness to pay by offering something unique —but not much.


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