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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:03 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:21 pm
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Location: Alexandria MN
Just counting issues as the ones that were brought back for those problems can be very misleading. Very possible a repair shop may deal with something without your knowledge but more commonly there can be something wrong the customer didn't even know was there.

When I was dealing with the excessive settling in issue with the Bourgeois style neck attachment I saw guitars back just at social visits etc. and the owners really didn't have any big complaints but looking at them the action was high at 12 and there was a rise of the extension. After I fixed that with a mild neck reset the owners were amazed at how much easier they played or if they never got above the fifth fret they didn't notice much difference at all. Seeing those instruments was huge as I realized I had to make some mods to enhance upper bout stability.

I have also seen early bridge gaps the owner never noticed.

I think it is really important to try to figure out ways to see your instruments back after a year or two when the situation permits, sometimes it is very gratifying, other times there are unexpected surprises.

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These users thanked the author Terence Kennedy for the post: Pmaj7 (Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:59 am)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:25 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6237
Location: Virginia
Tim Mullin wrote:
I’ve always had mixed feelings about commissions. They can be stressful, but I enjoy the interaction with a client to design and build something that speaks directly to him or her.

To relieve the stress from me, I offer a 100% money back option after a 48-hour trial period. If I can’t sell it to someone else, I don’t really want to be building it. Fortunately, no one has yet asked me to inlay their name across the fingerboard (heel caps, yes, but they’re easier to replace). So far, I’ve successfully discouraged extreme personalisation that would make the instrument difficult for me (or the customer) to sell to someone else.

I also do repair — I find one side of the lutherie coin gives tremendous insight on the other. Just last week I had a custom-built instrument come in the hands of a very disappointed customer. It is actually a nicely crafted instrument, but the customer had asked for an arm bevel and the luthier had never made one before. I was asked if I could “replace” it with something more to his liking — I said “no”, but I’ll do a proper setup on it today, so it’s nicer to play. Lesson: if you’re not prepared to give a money-back satisfaction guarantee, you’d better stick to designs and techniques you know really, really well. Commissions are not a good place for experimentation, and we all need to do a bit of that to grow.

Of course, I’m talking as someone who doesn’t really need to do this to put bread on the table. My business model fits a retiree with loads of business and life experience, but with another passion burning for release. Works for me, YMMV.


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I'm in the same boat. I've met a lot of nice people doing commission work and the stress of it is completely nil because if they don't like it they can send it back and then it's like any other guitar I built in my shop for sale. The only risk to them is the cost of shipping. I don't build anything wacky and unusual. If I did take that on then I'd probably demand a non refundable deposit or even full cost.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:05 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 5941
"Considering support after delivery as an element of the 'engagement' considerations does seem to me to have some bearing on the OP's question."

If someone wants some work done on an instrument I've built I usually accommodate them. One person needed a tuner button replaced and while it was there I noticed he was "digging a hole" in the soundboard. I suggested putting a pickguard over that area, which he went along with. Another person wanted the neck reshaped and an undersaddle pick up installed, not something I would normally do, but better I do it than someone who doesn't know how far they can go. I've had a bridge lift and one top fail, they were replaced at no cost to the customer. I don't give any type of warranty, but if I am so inclined I will fix what is wrong.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:03 am 
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Koa
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Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:33 am
Posts: 1836
First name: Willard
Last Name: Guthrie
City: Cumberland
State: Maryland 21502
Zip/Postal Code: 21502
Country: United State
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
Clay S. wrote:
"Considering support after delivery as an element of the 'engagement' considerations does seem to me to have some bearing on the OP's question."
... I've had a bridge lift and one top fail, they were replaced at no cost to the customer. I don't give any type of warranty, but if I am so inclined I will fix what is wrong.


I believe the point is well made in the quoted post - advising the prospective customer that the guitar is offered without explicit warranty, but also reserving the option to cover certain repairs or post-delivery adjustments at the builder's option seems like a reasonable middle ground between a limited, long-duration warranty and a "...don't let the door hit you on the way out..." brush-off. A common understanding of what might be expected in terms of 'suitable/satisfactory' at delivery and post-delivery support seems like a reasonable goal with regard to that element of the initial engagement discussion.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:02 am 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:24 am
Posts: 164
Location: Ohio
First name: Mike
Last Name: Tracz
I am so glad to see what this thread turned into. I can't say I'm not a bit discouraged and feel like I have a lot to learn before taking anyone's money for something I've created. I went into this as I'll figure it out one guitar at a time but am so glad I reached out before diving in head first.

I have had opportunities to do repair and through someone I trust and has way more experience than me. I will also continue building but for 'the public' rather than commissions.

I have a lot to think about and the easiest solution would be to start making furniture.

Thank you everyone for continuing the discussion. I'm going to check back more often, I didn't realize there was still momentum!

_Mike

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:23 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
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Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
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I don't know about switching to furniture. I used to make custom furniture, the issues were pretty much the same as guitar making and it was just as hard to make a reasonable wage.

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"Music is what feelings sound like"


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:56 pm 
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Cocobolo
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My apologies Steve, now that I read it I don't want any furniture maker to feel I'm minimizing their craft. I guess my ill guided point was another outlet for my desire to hone my craft, in a way that would support itself. Not make money but support it in some way. I've given too many guitars away and don't want to add up the expense in materials. I do get joy out of the fact that they are hopefully providing joy to someone but... it's getting expensive.

Thank you for keeping me in check!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:14 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:15 pm
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First name: Ed
Last Name: Bond
City: Vancouver
Country: Canada
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Mike, don’t be afraid to take a commission. Just be honest and clear about expectations and where you’re at as a builder, be willing to correct your errors, and most importantly charge what the instrument is worth. Don’t be asking the big bucks until your guitars are worth it in every regard. Nothing wrong with making 12-1500$ guitars as a young maker. I checked your site and your guitars look like they’re put together well enough to be at least worth something.

And guess what? Most folks are pretty reasonable to deal with, and you’ll know if they’re not long before any agreement is reached.

Just go for it but be prepared to stand behind your work. It’s not a big deal.



These users thanked the author meddlingfool for the post: Pmaj7 (Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:05 am)
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:36 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:12 pm
Posts: 6977
First name: Mike
Last Name: O'Melia
City: Huntsville
State: Alabama
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Anybody ever tried soft music, warm lighting, and a glass of wine? (ok feeling a bit cheeky)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:33 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:06 pm
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Location: Magnolia DE
First name: Brian
Last Name: Howard
City: Magnolia
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Focus: Repair
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SteveSmith wrote:
I don't know about switching to furniture. I used to make custom furniture, the issues were pretty much the same as guitar making and it was just as hard to make a reasonable wage.



Made furniture and cabinets for 30 years as a living prior to guitars.... Much worse! requires a larger shop, work is much heavier & clients were worse! More indecisive, more mid project changes and much more " This isn't what I expected"...

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:10 am 
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B. Howard wrote:
SteveSmith wrote:
I don't know about switching to furniture. I used to make custom furniture, the issues were pretty much the same as guitar making and it was just as hard to make a reasonable wage.



Made furniture and cabinets for 30 years as a living prior to guitars.... Much worse! requires a larger shop, work is much heavier & clients were worse! More indecisive, more mid project changes and much more " This isn't what I expected"...


That's for sure. I sure don't miss handling 4x8 sheets of oak plywood, among other things.

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"Music is what feelings sound like"


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:08 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:50 pm
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Terence Kennedy wrote:
I think it is really important to try to figure out ways to see your instruments back after a year or two when the situation permits, sometimes it is very gratifying, other times there are unexpected surprises.
I agree. I wish a few more of them would check in.

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