Official Luthiers Forum!

I've got some water based lacquer (Brite Tone) that I've been tinting different colors (from toners to solid colors) and they've all worked out well, but now I'm trying to mix some opaque black for the face of a headstock. I did my pore fill and then dyed the headstock black and then applied the black lacquer I had mixed. After a couple coats it looks good, but then when sunlight hits it, it takes on this almost gray/brown milky quality, and you can faintly see the grain. I'm less concerned about the slight translucency, but the color is really bugging me.

To mix the lacquer I added black dye to my clear lacquer, and then also added some universal black pigment. Does this seem like I just haven't added enough pigment? I'm hesitant about just slopping more coats on, there's about six on there now and it's built up quite a bit. With black how many coats is a reasonable expectation for good coverage?

What I have used is Mohawk ultra penetrating stain. It is alcohol based and will mix with solvent or water based lacquers. When going for opaque colors I use mostly stain and only enough finish material to act as a "binder" to hold the color on the wood. This helps to build color without building too much finish. The final coats of finish are generally clear coats that can be flattened and buffed out.

Fiebing shoe dye is another deep-penetrating stain that can be finished over once dry - sometimes available at Walmart and most good shoe stores and resoling shops..if holly veneer is dyed with Fiebings and then glued to the peghead, the look is quite similar to vintage thin veneer Gibson headstocks. Another option we've used is coloring the finish with carbon black powder...this appears to be the black that Gibson used on at least some of their guitars from the 1920's, and does a nice job of replicating that look at the cost of a diligent cleaning of the spray gun.

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If you're really successful at (BS'ing), it means you're not hanging around enough people smarter than you.

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I've had my best results with trans tints. I have however only used them with nitro unless doing a burst direct to the wood. Trans tint in alcohol type. Wood essence is a good Canuck supplier and it comes in all flavours if you ever feel bold and daring.

I see you're in the hood Conor. Do you know about our little dog and pony show? It's a lot of fun.

Yeah, I've bought most of my current finishing supplies from wood essence. They seem pretty good.

I haven't heard of the islands luthiers guild, and when I tried to find it online the website wouldn't load. Is the show on the poster by Parksville? It was hard to read the font, does that say Errington?

What I use for solid colors. https://www.mixol.com/t-tinting/22.html

Adding dye for a solid color will likely just compromise film strength unnecessarily.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

I think that guild is mostly defunct. I was never really involved. The show is a good one and yes, in the little hamlet of Errington. There's a great bunch of regulars that get tables at this show. From hobbyists and up, and up. At $20 it's pretty good value and it's a very good place to market yourself, if you're looking to. Generally a great show the night of and Marc Atkinson is no exception. It's a fun day. Let me know if you're interested.

Thanks Brian! Are these compatible with nitro?

I don't know anything about water base, but I use Mohawk black lacquer under nitro clear if I want an opaque black finish.

I put it in the calendar. I think I'll try and make it, although my wife is expecting our third right around then so plans may get high jacked...

Thanks for the tip on dye Brian.

The mixol pigments are what I have been using as well. I mixed about 30 drops into 8oz (237 ml). of lacquer, too much too little?

The ratios from the website I ordered from say 20ml of pigment will tint 375ml of lacquer to 8% tinting strength (maximum rec. strength is 10%). I'm not sure what tinting strength means, does this mean I should not exceed 8-10% of lacquer with pigment? I'm also not sure what the best way of measuring the 63% of 20ml I need when the pigment comes out in single drops from my tiny bottle.

Try a syringe.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

One thing you might consider is just buy one spray can of black lacquer from StewMac. Cheap, easy and it works.

ps - in his book on guitar finishing, Erlewine has a three page section on staining and finishing the black headplates on Gibson style guitars.

Yeah I used his process, but didn't have any pre-mixed black lacquer at home. Good idea about having a spray can on hand.

Glycol based so compatible with almost anything, lacquer, polyester, WB.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Tint strength is the amount of pigment you put into the clear to make the color. In your case 237ml of clear can have up to 24ml of pigment, this is a 10% mix strength(i rounded up the 237 to 240....). The 10% rule is meant mainly for topcoats however it is a good rule to follow. If you are clearing over the color you can raise concentrations up to 20% depending on the exact coating you are using without losing too much film strength.

Measuring, I use stainless steel metric measuring spoons and cups, small plastic lab cups marked in ml (30 ml size) and 4ml pipettes. I also use a disposable cup system on my gun at times which is marked in ml and all popular coating mix ratios. For reference there are 15-20 drops per ml so your mix was very weak.

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/