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 Post subject: Slothead dimensions
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:21 pm 
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First name: Brian
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I have this set of rubner tuners for my current project. i have not used the end bearing option before, and they are a bit different than the non bearing roller.
Measuring them out appears to give me a slot of 21mm wide, with a ~ 6 mm wide strip at the outer edge of the headstock. These numbers seem a bit odd. Maybe I am seeing this wrong.
Anyone used these or have any comments?
Thanks,
B

https://www.rubnertuners.com/new-page-3/


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 Post subject: Re: Slothead dimensions
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:12 pm 
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Although I've used Rubner's on all my classicals, when I built my first slot head SS last year, I passed on the Rubners in favor of Waverly's because the dimensions on the Rubner's seemed off for my plans. I think they are pretty good about modifying if you want custom, but I just passed on the added complication.


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 Post subject: Re: Slothead dimensions
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:20 pm 
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Martin practice appears to be something close to a 5/8" width slot (edit: nominal is 9/16", but with sanding, we see between 0.570" and 0.590", with the side of the peghead nominally 5/16", but usually closer to .305" to .285", again reflecting some sanding loss on both the outer face and the slots), and it's not unusual to see narrower slots down to 1/2" or a bit less on some resonator-style instruments (I really enjoy restringing these, as I usually get the job due to smaller fingers). In my time here, I have not seen a steel string tuner that showed excessive rolling friction that did not involve gear or bearing failure, so I am reasonably certain that the usual care with alignment and installation will obviate the need for end bearings. Looks like an unnecessary carry-over from classical practice.

Another consideration: standard slotted headstock tuners use 1/4" or smaller shafts, so the loss in stiffness and strength is fairly minor. A 3/8"/10mm hole removes just over twice as much wood, so will make the headstock a bit more prone to damage in the event of a mishap than with the smaller diameter tuner holes.

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Last edited by Woodie G on Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:09 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Slothead dimensions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:01 am 
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I would like to see a picture of your headstock with the tuners installed when you finally build it. Fwiw I've built a bunch of slot heads with 1/2 slots spaced about 5/16 from the outside. Tuner shafts are about 1 inch long so they are supported by 3/16 on the inside. As long as the holes are drilled carefully they seem to work fine - even 12 strings.


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 Post subject: Re: Slothead dimensions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:33 am 
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whoops i see they are for a steel string

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 Post subject: Re: Slothead dimensions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:18 pm 
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Freeman wrote:
I would like to see a picture of your headstock with the tuners installed when you finally build it. Fwiw I've built a bunch of slot heads with 1/2 slots spaced about 5/16 from the outside. Tuner shafts are about 1 inch long so they are supported by 3/16 on the inside. As long as the holes are drilled carefully they seem to work fine - even 12 strings.


I do mine the same as Freeman....

You can also do it this way with the rollers-it's just that the rollers on one or both sides will be recessed into the wood which is what I think has to happen.....


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 Post subject: Re: Slothead dimensions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:27 pm 
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Freeman wrote:
I would like to see a picture of your headstock with the tuners installed when you finally build it. Fwiw I've built a bunch of slot heads with 1/2 slots spaced about 5/16 from the outside. Tuner shafts are about 1 inch long so they are supported by 3/16 on the inside. As long as the holes are drilled carefully they seem to work fine - even 12 strings.


I recently bought some Grover Sta-tite for slotted peghead and was surprised to discover the hole in the post to tie off with is only 1/2” from the mounting surface. I had routed my slots 1/2” from the outside edge and had to rasp/file the slots wider.

5/16” is probably what I should have done, but BOY does that look delicate. I don’t understand why that is the default design. Solid pegheads usually have the tuners go through 1/2” of thickness. Probably has some historical basis, but it sure looks wrong to the woodworker/engineer in me.


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 Post subject: Re: Slothead dimensions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:10 pm 
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Thanks for all the replies. I think that this tuner would look great if the roller length was reduced to ~14-15mm or so. As it sits the slot would be over 13/16” wide to install as It appears to be intended.
I think I will bury 1/8” of each end into the headstock.
Also, unless I offset them them, the minimum headstock width will need to be 2-1/2”.
Hmmm...not sure I have seen offset slot heads, I think I will sketch that out.


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 Post subject: Re: Slothead dimensions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:45 am 
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Of course the best approach is to do a mock up in some scrap wood before you try it on the actual guitar.......


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 Post subject: Re: Slothead dimensions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:09 am 
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First name: Brian
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Brad Goodman wrote:
Of course the best approach is to do a mock up in some scrap wood before you try it on the actual guitar.......


My thoughts exactly!

Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Slothead dimensions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:36 am 
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When I compare that photo with the dimension to the specs for a generic classical guitar tuner (I just went to StewMac and looked at the Sloanes) they are very much the same. The overall length of the Sloane shaft is 30.2mm with 3mm on the inside and 6 on the outside, that gives the part that is in the slot at 21.2mm, same as yours. The bearings are the same diameter as the rollers on the Sloane, in my humble opinion what Rubner has done is put a smaller diameter metal roller in the middle of a classical tuner to better wrap steel strings.

Use whatever measurements and drilling jig you would use for a classical tuner and you should be good.

Of course this does mean that your one source of tuners will be Rubner - none of the "standard" steel string tuners will work. And while the bearing and teflon roller are great engineering ideas, frankly, I don't have a problem with conventional quality tuners. Milage will vary, of course.


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 Post subject: Re: Slothead dimensions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:39 pm 
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With a classical tuner if my slots are a little narrower than 21.4 mm, I still have a full 10 mm roller in the 10 mm holes. With these tuners if the slots are not 21.4 mm you will have 6 mm rollers at the 10 mm hole. I think it would look funky. They would work with the bearing properly seated in the head stock but I am not sure I would like how it looked.

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