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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:37 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:33 am
Posts: 819
First name: Willard
Last Name: Guthrie
City: Cumberland
State: Maryland 21502
Zip/Postal Code: 21502
Country: United State
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
Here are a few photos showing the heel contours on a 1951 Martin 000-18 (in for neck reset), a 1972 D12-20 (reset/rebuild), a 2018 curly mahogany/red spruce D-42 12 fret (new build -1st coat of SilverTip), and a 2008 OM (refinished with EnduroVar to address owner body chemistry issues with lacquer).

The two Martins and the new 12 fret build show the slightly concave heel sections discussed above, while the earlier 2008 commission shows the cyma (ogee-like) curved section which makes for a thicker, clunkier-feeling and looking heel.

Attachment:
1951_00018.jpg


Attachment:
1972_D12-20.jpg


Attachment:
2018_D12Gr.jpg


Attachment:
2008_OMGr.jpg


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These users thanked the author Woodie G for the post (total 3): bcombs510 (Thu May 31, 2018 1:14 pm) • Jules (Thu May 31, 2018 12:33 pm) • Bryan Bear (Thu May 31, 2018 10:15 am)
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 11:01 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:34 am
Posts: 2873
That's the word I was trying to remember...ogee.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 12:47 pm 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:46 am
Posts: 153
Location: Heaven and Hell (Florida)
First name: Julie
Last Name: Moriarty
City: Punta Gorda
State: FL
Zip/Postal Code: 33950
Country: US
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Freeman wrote:
If you wanted to do something totally cool in Autocadd, create a parametric model of your neck. That way as you changed one or more parameters you could see how the effect rippled thru the neck. I spend a lot of time (by hand) trying to modify a neck that I like to fit a different nut width or scale length (sorry) or fretboard radius.

I was actually going to suggest something like that for your other thread but it was just getting too ugly. But think of this, if you changed your scale length what happens to all the other design parameters - does the sound hole move, do the braces move and in what fashion, obviously the bridge moves but how? It is the classic example of a parametric design, all we need is someone to do it.

Also, as far as your Autocadd work, you might be interested in several of the recent articles in American Lutherie talking about design of guitar shapes using circles, tangents, splines, some of the classic ratios (Golden et al). The authors typically give both manual and computer aided drafting methods. As I recall the OM was one of the shapes they came up with and this could easily be made into a parametric model too.

I usually do a pretty extensive CAD drawing before making templates and jigs. Just get carried away. A few factors (workshop not set up, CAD monitor on the fritz, and I think just getting old) prompted me to just buy plans and templates and I think I've been paying for that. The neck templates I've gotten thanks to you and John Hall will give me a chance to mess around in CAD and see how things relate to one another. Now I just have to do it. duh

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:18 pm 
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Koa
Koa
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:21 am
Posts: 1162
First name: Brad
Last Name: Combs
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Woodie, those pics are seriously helpful.

I've used both handcarved and CNC necks. When I carve them myself I use the method from Mr Kennedy to create the heel which sort of creates the "desired" contour I believe.

http://kennedyguitars.com/heel-profile- ... empla.html

Brad

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:03 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:18 pm
Posts: 68
State: West Somerset
Country: UK
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
This is an interesting question. I have been aiming at this sort of profile as in below. I was driven by two things: the aesthetics and the notion that I wanted to leave a reasonable amount of wood to keep the strength up at this crucial joint.

But of course it is what the player needs that is important and it could well be that those who are advocating a fairly slender, completely concave shape up the height of the heel are giving a better feel to the player.

You do have to resolve the concave to convex surfaces at some point and it is a question as to where this takes place. In the body of the heel or further away along the neck.

My example happens to be a classical but the same reasoning applies I think to any type of guitar. I notice that I was pretty poor at the symmetry but let's leave that to one side! This was an early attempt that I had to reject because I couldn't get the geometry right. Also apologies for the poor photo.

I wonder if there any players with views on this...?

Cheers Dave M


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:56 am 
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Contributing Member
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:52 am
Posts: 4258
First name: Big
Last Name: Jim
State: Deep in the heart of Bluegrass
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
You need to contact your local office of neck profilers . These are ones i recommend .

Attachment:
profilers.jpg


laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe


Quote:
just go with what feels good. Once the thickness and width are established, profile the neck to suit your personal preference. Is this correct?

Yes Thats what I do . Right or wrong ? thats up to the individual


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