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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:07 am 
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Koa
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jfmckenna wrote:
rlrhett wrote:
I French polish with RL and have never experienced anything but joy using it. I know that would be frustrating to hear, and I’m not saying it to rub in (no pun intended). But I offer it as a counterpoint.


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Right out of the can?


Yes, but that is deceptive. I apply the RL to the muñeca with a dropper just a few drops at a time. I also apply alcohol with the dropper by feel. What is my actual cut? I don’t really know.

Also, I am working very dry. If it is gummy, I think your muñeca is too loaded up. It should feel more like you are burnishing than painting. The build up is done with regular shellac and a dab of pumice. I use oil VERY sparingly.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:44 am 
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rlrhett wrote:
jfmckenna wrote:
rlrhett wrote:
I French polish with RL and have never experienced anything but joy using it. I know that would be frustrating to hear, and I’m not saying it to rub in (no pun intended). But I offer it as a counterpoint.


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Right out of the can?


Yes, but that is deceptive. I apply the RL to the muñeca with a dropper just a few drops at a time. I also apply alcohol with the dropper by feel. What is my actual cut? I don’t really know.

Also, I am working very dry. If it is gummy, I think your muñeca is too loaded up. It should feel more like you are burnishing than painting. The build up is done with regular shellac and a dab of pumice. I use oil VERY sparingly.


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That agrees with what I'm doing and what I tried to describe earlier.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:01 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Ok so last night I tried a thinned out mix and olive oil. The oil is what really did it. Now I can see a vapor trail like regular FP though I still cannot use the same technique. With regular FP I go over the whole surface over and over and over for several minutes. The fresh layers melt into the ones below. But with this I can go over it but not too much or it starts to grab. But at least it's close enough. I was weary about using oil because I thought maybe it would get locked under the finish but I can tell by looking at it that the oil has risen to the top just like when I FP. So I will try spiriting that off and moving on.

Pics when I'm done...



These users thanked the author jfmckenna for the post: Bryan Bear (Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:15 am)
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:51 pm 
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I agree that regular shellac should be used at first when using a French Polish application (a couple of sessions) ... then proceed to French Polish with RoyaLac using olive oil (i.e. non drying oil) as per normal with regards to cut and everything else.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:56 pm 
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I'm glad this thread came up. This gives me some useful information about where to start when I get around to trying this. Hopefully it will save me a bit of trial and error.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:19 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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How many labor hours do you folks invest in a FP finish?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:06 pm 
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I'd have to check my notes on how much time it takes me but I have found ways of speeding it up too. Pumice fill is very time consuming so I typically use egg whites or traditional oil filler. I did jsut experiment with epoxy and like the result and also I am going to do a test panel using CA in a few days. I also brush on several coats of shellac to seal the guitar real good rathar than pad on the seal coats. After sanding flat it's only a matter of getting a few good top coat sessions. It takes probably 10 days but the amount of time for each session is only 15-20 minutes if that. If I had a dedicated finish room that would help but setting up and tearing down each session takes time.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:30 pm 
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200 minutes is pretty good...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:37 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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No, that's several sessions a day though.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:38 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Sure, but you have to do that spraying or brushing as well...


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:14 pm 
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After fighting with hobby grade spray equipment and makeshift spray booths for a decade I discovered FP was actually faster and less stress than spraying.


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These users thanked the author rlrhett for the post: Pmaj7 (Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:06 pm)
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:24 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I believe it. But the best benefit is the thin finish, which is what drives my interest.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:25 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I always did my Nitro spraying outside. It's just to dangerous a stuff and I never did have the space for a dedicated finsih room. But I tend to agree, people say FP is the most labor intensive blah blah but honestly I can get it done easier than any other finish. Besides the Nitro I was using KTM for a while with a brush, then I tried varnish also with a brush so I got used to the 'hand' application of finishes and so maybe FP came easier to me I don't know. But with FP I don't polish out too, I just glaze it and it's done. That's one less step then pretty much all the other finishes.

BTW I tried Tru-Oil for the first time last year. I know it's sort of considered an amateur finish in the professional luthier community but you know what? The stuff is easy to apply and it really does look fantastic. I'll definitely be using more of that in the future.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:31 am 
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Got down to the shop this morning, here's one FP'd with Royal Lac using the method I described.

Image

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These users thanked the author SteveSmith for the post (total 2): Pmaj7 (Tue May 01, 2018 6:33 pm) • Bryan Bear (Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:12 pm)
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:01 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Looks pretty good from here. What was you fill?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:33 am 
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Timbermate with some extra black in it. None on the redwood top, of course.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:13 pm 
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That looks great Steve!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:56 pm 
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Thanks Bryan

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:20 pm 
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I have had disastrous results with Royal Lac. I will never go near it again. I have no idea what I did wrong. Waited too long between coats, not long enough? Five of my instruments turned into alligator skin. It was very embarrassing and took days to sand off and redo with nitro.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:36 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Did you spray?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:56 am 
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I sprayed three with RL and made the mistake of shooting it like nitro. I got crazing in the finish. After consulting with Vijay i realized I shot too many coats per day too close together and too thick. RL likes to be thin and needs more time to dry between coats.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:23 am 
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It should also be noted that there was a period when Vijay was trying to perfect a special formulation of RL for spraying, and that did not go well for some folks. I don’t know the current status of that saga, because I don’t spray it, and I have not kept up. The important point is that the regular formulation of RL has not caused the same problems. It has its own quirks, so some hand application techniques might work better than others for some people, but as far as I know, nobody has had disasters using the regular formulation, applied by pad or brush.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:49 am 
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Actually, I was using the regular formulation. The failures were my fault due to improper application, something that is pretty common with many finishes. I still use the regular formula with obvious success

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:25 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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So far the only problems I've read about have been from people who sprayed it. I guess you just can't...


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:44 am 
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When I had the failures I was spraying it. Sorry if I was confusing.

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