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PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=50271		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  ernie [ Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
I have an older sargent 6C fore plane which I like, the original plane blade is quite worn . I am thinking of replacing it with the above mentioned blade. My only experience is replacing an older stanley number 5 with a hock blade . So I am wanting to find out if this LV blade is worth the $$ or is there another suitable replacement clifton L/N , L/V ,stanley etc > Thank YOU,
Author:  klooker [ Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
I just got my first PVM11 blade that I'm using in my Stanley 60-1/2.

I sharpened it then abused it on plywood for a home renovation project. It's dull now but it seemed to hold up pretty well to the abuse.

I have Hock blades in all my other planes - regular carbon steel. The PVM11 seemed a little tougher to sharpen. I need to resharpen the PVM11 & pay closer attention. I think it did hold up longer than a Hock carbon blade but I can't say how much.

The PVM11 blade is only about $7.00 more? I think it's worth it but remember it will be tougher to sharpen.

Kevin Looker
Author:  ernie [ Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
Thanks Kevin I have a wen slow speed grinder , jet wet grinder, an older american 6 in grinder and many waterstones/oil/ceramic stones. I have quite a few asian /japanese blades with very hard steel . Yes they are much harder to sharpen , but longer edge retention .
Author:  truckjohn [ Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
Most of these planes take Stanley pattern irons... Likely you could get a Hock iron if you want carbon steel. Stanley also sells irons if you want another standard thickness factory replacement. Stanley irons are generally very good for the price.

LN, Clifton, and IBC all sell A2 steel irons - which are generally very good. These better irons are properly heat treated so you will get about all that can be gotten out of A2...

The next step up is HSS and the PM-V11 irons.... HSS seems to have fallen out of favor since PM-V11 hit the scene... I think that tells you something - Veritas sucked all the wind out of that market.. No doubt in part because HSS is a beast to sharpen properly.....

My own standing on the matter is that you need to know what you are mostly doing with the plane and pick the iron accordingly...

If it's mostly spruce and soft woods - Sharp matters more than anything else. Carbon steel is king.

If it's mostly medium density hardwoods - mahogany, cherry, soft maple, and walnut - CS works fine, A2 and super steel lasts almost forever...

If it's mostly hard, dense, abrasive stuff like Rosewood, Granadillo, Zircote, the hard White oak, ebony, bubinga, MDF, and plywood - HSS or PM-V11 is king...
Author:  ernie [ Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
Thanks for the detailed explanation, I have 2 number 6 planes an 5.1/2 all cs blades and what you said john makes a lot of sense . I might go a2 as I have 2 wooden fore planes 1 the mujifang has a laminated HSS blade and ebony body. The other homemade plane has the ece chrome vanadium blade it.s body is maple /walnut with EIR sole PLus I have 2 ece jointer planes with the chrome vanadium blades which are used for everything !
Author:  Clinchriver [ Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
PM-VII is very user friendly, sharpens easily and holds its edge forever. I have a couple of excellent Hock replacement blades that are very good. As far as difficult to sharpen I have a Lie Nielsen, small low angle block plane that was a real PITA, super hard, took forever to flatten the back and it chipped the first couple of time's I used it. I ground it back about 0.050, resharpened and its much better
Author:  Ruby50 [ Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
I have a Stanley 2-1/4" blade, early Sweetheart logo 1921-22, near full length and good shape I can part with. They used the 2-1/4" blade in the #4-1/2 and the #5-1/2 until WWII when they standardized on the same 2-3/8" they used in the #6 and #7. Let me know

Ed
Author:  ernie [ Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
Hi ed, thanks for the kind offer can you PM me with the details ? regards ernie
Author:  pullshocks [ Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
I recently got the 2 3/8" PVM11 plane iron for my Sargent #422 jointer plane (22" length).

I also got a 2" for an old Stanley #5. The quality is excellent. The 2" needed only light honing. The 2 3/8" needs more honing but no big deal. The PVM11 sharpens up great and held its edge well on some western maple I was working with

The new iron works great in the Sargent. The new iron is only slightly thicker than the original, so it is "plug & play" replacement. As a side note, the cap iron is the right width, but I wonder if it is the right one. The rectangular hole seems too close to the edge, so I have to turn the adjustment knob all the way out to get the blade extended enough to pull a shaving. I wonder if somewhere along the line an incorrect cap iron got put on the plane.

The 2" iron is considerably thicker than the original Stanley iron, causing the depth of cut adjustment dog to barely extend into the rectangular hole on the cap iron, and depth of cut adjustment is not very positive.
Author:  Aaron O [ Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
I know I'm late to the party, but I just received my Bailey #6 Fore Plane - $60 off eBay, and have a Pmv11 blade on its way.

There were chips in the iron that I ground down, and tested it on my new shooting board. I get it why guys bookmatch with a plane on a shooting board. The prices of planes scared me off, so I'm glad I got a deal on the #6. I'm sure the pmv11 will be much better than my reground iron.
Author:  ernie [ Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
aaron depends on what wood your cutting , I have 2 number 6/s and they work fine on softwood an med hdwds.I use HSS or high angle planes on the really hard stuff ebony rosewood cocobollo etc. Still ,from all the feedback the L/V pm blade is a winner
Author:  kfish [ Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
I don't have experience with Lie Nielsen blades. I have a couple Hock blades but my go to plane is a Stanley 5 with a Pinnacle blade from Woodcraft. I plane on buying a couple more of those.
Kent
Author:  Michael.N. [ Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
I've tried a great many blade types (not the LV), some pretty expensive. I've fallen back on old Stanley and Record blades which I have many spares. They aren't expensive. I've had 1950's Record No. 4 's for under $20 with practically full length original blades from the usual auction site. You just have to spot them. I just sharpen a few at a time and if I'm doing a fair amount of thicknessing it doesn't take long to swap blades. I also use a wooden plane with a slightly cambered blade to remove the bulk of the material. With a good set up and technique you can get pretty quick at this stuff.
Author:  Aaron O [ Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
Got the PVM11 iron and cap, and spent some time on the stones.
The "micro bevel" wasn't too micro.

Of course the thickness of the iron doesn't fit the mouth of the plane, so I had to open that up. Sacrilege? Maybe - I'm not a collector, I need a working tool.

Admittedly, psychologically, I have to like this iron better. The shavings are see through thin, so I'm
good for now. Jointed a Quilted Maple back, and a Sitka top as tests. Passed.
Author:  Clay S. [ Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
"Of course the thickness of the iron doesn't fit the mouth of the plane, so I had to open that up. Sacrilege? Maybe - I'm not a collector, I need a working tool."

There wasn't enough room by moving the frog back? Or was it a block or infill plane with a non adjustable frog?
Author:  ernie [ Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
Anyone used the Lie - nielsen replacement blades ? looked at their replacement blades a2 steel and chipbreaker . they are slightly more $$ and the blades are thicker about 1/8in ? Have quite a few of their planes i.e L/N, the only LV plane I own is the large scraper plane and the extra A2 scraper at 45 deg is a PITA to sharpen, It/s an ok tool but IMHO not worth the money , the standard flexible thinner blade that comes with it seems to work better. A difficult tool to use, but so is the pint size LN version of the stanley 212 small scraper plane. Anyone have feedback on the LN replacement blades vs LV pmv 111 . I own 2 of the LN la jack blades with 40 deg bevel and find them extremely useful ?? Your thoughts please ??? thanks
Author:  Aaron O [ Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
Clay S. wrote:
"Of course the thickness of the iron doesn't fit the mouth of the plane, so I had to open that up. Sacrilege? Maybe - I'm not a collector, I need a working tool."

There wasn't enough room by moving the frog back? Or was it a block or infill plane with a non adjustable frog?

Stanley Bailey #6 Fore plane - the frog is back as far as it could go, to the point where the bevel would hit the mouth.

I did a quick search after my modification and found this to be an issue with some planes, so I thought it appropriate that I share it on this thread. It's not a showstopper for me, but would've been nice to know that this could happen, so at least I'd be prepared for it.

ernie wrote:
Anyone used the Lie - nielsen replacement blades ? looked at their replacement blades a2 steel and chipbreaker . they are slightly more $$ and the blades are thicker about 1/8in ?

I would've very easily ordered a Hock or LN iron (I like Ron Hock's perspective in his vid where he describes the plane as a holder for the blade), but since I was ordering from LV anyway. . . And the geometry of the cap iron works well. In retrospect, the .025 thicker Hock blades would've had me modifying the mouth more, on my plane.
Author:  Clay S. [ Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
"Sacrilege? Maybe - I'm not a collector, I need a working tool."

The #6 is one of the least loved planes, so I don't think you will hurt anyone's feelings. There are times when modifying the tool is the only way to make it work for you. I have an old #6 that is missing some parts I've been thinking about adding some "infill" to. I have some old thick irons, so I would probably need to open the throat also. It's on the list - [:Y:]
Author:  Aaron O [ Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
Clay S. wrote:
The #6 is one of the least loved planes, so I don't think you will hurt anyone's feelings. There are times when modifying the tool is the only way to make it work for you. I have an old #6 that is missing some parts I've been thinking about adding some "infill" to. I have some old thick irons, so I would probably need to open the throat also. It's on the list - [:Y:]

This is my first foray into jointing with a plane (after all these years). I had no need to switch from my current process, but I thought it'd be cool to get into hand tools, which I seem to be gravitating to in my older age, so started my search for a #7. I thought a #6 would be better sized for ukulele sized tops, and I don't think I'm wrong with a 24" shooting board. Had patience, and got a good price on one, right as this thread started.

I even downloaded the LV plans to make my own tote, which I still may do, just for fun. . .
Author:  Clay S. [ Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
Hi Aaron,
For jointing something as short as guitar plates the #6 should work fine, even without a shooting board. A #7 might be overkill. If you are using a shooting board a smoother (#4) will work fine. I've heard of some people using a block plane with a shooting board.
I had always heard that infill planes were better than the Bailey type. I finally found a used smoother at a good price (they are no longer "commercially" made) and have to agree - the thicker iron and greater mass seems to make it work better. They don't have the adjustments the bailey types have but are still a joy to use.
I use a power jointer and planer/sander most of the time, but sometimes it's nice to do things quietly, by hand.
Author:  ernie [ Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
Bogdanovich uses a stanley or block plane for truing I/ve used L/N shoulder plane to joint uke B an S . Looks like LV has free shipping and at 50$ us for the pmv111 I will order one. Thanks for the update. The old sargent plane on my hefty 6c takes a 2 3/8 in blade and the mouth is open enough to accomodate the LV blade which is .100 the sargent is .087
Author:  Ruby50 [ Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
Ernie

Sounds like you have invested in scraper planes - I, too, find them a little finicky to use. Much easier is the Stanley 80. It has a thumb screw that slightly bends the blade, like you would do with a card scraper, and is very easy to set up and use.

Also, I have an assortment of planes and I usually end up with my #65 low angle block plane for shooting anything under 24".

Ed
Author:  ernie [ Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
I have the LV scraper plane , it/s just ok the stanley copy by L/N of the 212 and a robbins older vln scraping plane simple and easy to use I have 2 # 80. s an old stanley off evil bay and a kunz that Ive had for 40 yrs. I have some small scraper planes from china with small blades for trim work. I also have a 9in chinese polishing /scraper plane again in rosewood , it/s HSS so hard to sharpen , for scraping FB/s backs and wild grain. It.s taken me over 43 yrs LOL to collect scrapers./planes Good card scrapers with rosewood or ebony handles can be found at yard sales and reground for luthiery jobs. I/ve tried to joint with a block plane , never works for me . I made an 11in japanese Kanna from osage orange with a hand made 2in japanese blade it/s excellent for jointing on edge as it leaves a very fine smooth surface suitable for immediate gluing.
Author:  wolfsearcher [ Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
The Lie Nielsen is thicker than the Veritas and you will have to modify the mouth.
I'm still unsure if the PMV-11 irons are thin enough to get the cap iron to the very tip of cutting edge?
Author:  ernie [ Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: PMV11 2 - 3/8in plane blade by Lee valley
Tomas the LV pmv is 2.5mm thick, the sargent blade is about 2.2mm, there is still another 2.5mm of mouth showing on the sargent, the frog can be pulled back to accomodate the extra thickness of the pmv blade , or if the mouth of your plane is still not open enough, incremental and careful adjustments with a thin metal bastard file 1/2in wide or 12mm can remove enough metal from the mouth opening to your specs. E.G. you have about a,oo8 thousand mouth opening or .2mm , to take off very thin shavings, or .4mm or .o16 for a larger mouth opening and larger shavings.
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