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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:13 pm 
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Mike OMelia wrote:
You should not have to trim a roll. Here are some thoughts: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread. ... nder-Paper

The string around the drum is the best idea

The idea is simple. Wrap a string around drum to get exact circumference. Place string on end corner of paper, stretch across till u intersect side. Mark. That line is ur taper on one end. Cut it. Put in drum sander and wrap to other end. Mark point on edge where paper starts going over edge. Remove paper. Use that mark and string to lay out taper on that end. Cut, reinstall. U are done. Random widths do not matter. Still, you’d think they would tell u this.


Mike, there is more to it than that. All drum sanders that have a 16” diameter will work with 3” paper. When you introduce odd widths it gets difficult.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:52 pm 
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Crap, I'm almost ready to order a roll to prove it. I don't know what the "roll paper test" is. But, its just geometry. The taper has to go all the way around then tuck in. Y'all saying its not enough?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:34 am 
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Mike OMelia wrote:
Crap, I'm almost ready to order a roll to prove it. I don't know what the "roll paper test" is. But, its just geometry. The taper has to go all the way around then tuck in. Y'all saying its not enough?


Get out your Christmas wrapping paper. Cut a 2 3/4” wide piece that is long enough to wrap the whole drum. Put your 16” taper on it. Wrap the drum, mark where it meets the end of the drum. Put the reverse taper on it.

It won’t hit your attachment clip on the end. Yes it will clip to the first attachment clip. Yes it will cover the whole surface of the drum. No, it will not hit your second attachment point.

This will save you 25 bucks when you waste half the Abranet roll. Ask me how I know.

You’ll have to trim the width of the paper to let you get the right number of wraps. What your link shows is how to do the math to get the full surface of the drum covered. That part is easy. It’s in the manual of your sander already. You don’t need a string to measure. The spec for your sander tells you the circumference of the drum. That circumference is the length of the taper. It’s the number of wraps that matters. If you don’t get a number of complete wraps, it won’t hit your attachment clips.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:08 am 
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This is the first I've heard of using Abranet on a drum sander. I think Mirka is more interested in promoting the airflow benefit of Abranet and you don't get airflow theough the abrasive on a drum sander. Klingspor has their version of Abranet. I haven't priced it.



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:27 am 
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Interestingly, looks like there is a Abranet roll in the U.K. that is sold in 75mm widths, which is pretty darn close to the 3” standard drum paper we use here. Could be worth a try.

https://www.classichandtools.com/acatal ... _Roll.html

Mark, do you know if the Klingspor version has a specific name?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:29 am 
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A shorter taper on the outboard end will result in more space between each wrap and should - with the correct taper selection - match up to the inboard clip. If using wrapping paper to model the various taper solutions, avoid the kind with glitter, unless you wish to continue to enjoy those little reminders of the holidays for longer than might seem desirable to me.

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These users thanked the author Woodie G for the post (total 2): Michaeldc (Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:01 am) • bcombs510 (Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:32 am)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:07 am 
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Woodie G wrote:
A shorter taper on the outboard end will result in more space between each wrap and should - with the correct taper selection - match up to the inboard clip.


This is a good point and worth experimentation, especially from folks with a wider drum sander.

I tried this when first experimenting. I put a 1/4” gap between wraps and cut the normal taper on the outboard side and an only slightly modified taper on the inboard side. It may have required no modification on the inboard side at all if the gaps were perfect. But what I found is that the Abranet would slough over to one side when the machine was running. I was worried about overlap in that scenario. I don’t know if it’s the very slight amount of cushion on the Abranet or what, but it would slide over to one side of the drum no matter how tight I thought I was wrapping it.

If the gap was more narrow it could work.

For me I just cut it to 2 1/2”. Works perfectly. :)




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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:38 am 
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I'm looking forward to trying Abranet on my drum, but back to the O.P.

You will almost certainly get fed up with burning and slow stock removal. You will go buy some 36 grit. You will get some deep scratches, and when you switch to a finer grit, you will find out that taking the deep scratches from both sides will leave you much thinner than you intended.

Now when I go back to 36 grit, I make a test pass, find the stones that cause the deepest scratches, and pick them off the paper.

My conveyor doesn't run completely flush to the table, and the belts can work a bit loose. At the thicknesses we deal with they rub together. I use a sled to carry my thin boards through. Also, running the sled through the sander before gluing down a tail stop corrects for any lack of parallelism.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:49 am 
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Mark Fogleman wrote:
This is the first I've heard of using Abranet on a drum sander. I think Mirka is more interested in promoting the airflow benefit of Abranet and you don't get airflow theough the abrasive on a drum sander. Klingspor has their version of Abranet. I haven't priced it.


Mark, I have not been able to find a Klingspor mesh abrasive in rolls, only discs. Is it a special product, I.e. not on their web site?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:56 am 
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bcombs510 wrote:
Mike OMelia wrote:
Crap, I'm almost ready to order a roll to prove it. I don't know what the "roll paper test" is. But, its just geometry. The taper has to go all the way around then tuck in. Y'all saying its not enough?


Get out your Christmas wrapping paper. Cut a 2 3/4” wide piece that is long enough to wrap the whole drum. Put your 16” taper on it. Wrap the drum, mark where it meets the end of the drum. Put the reverse taper on it.

It won’t hit your attachment clip on the end. Yes it will clip to the first attachment clip. Yes it will cover the whole surface of the drum. No, it will not hit your second attachment point.

This will save you 25 bucks when you waste half the Abranet roll. Ask me how I know.

You’ll have to trim the width of the paper to let you get the right number of wraps. What your link shows is how to do the math to get the full surface of the drum covered. That part is easy. It’s in the manual of your sander already. You don’t need a string to measure. The spec for your sander tells you the circumference of the drum. That circumference is the length of the taper. It’s the number of wraps that matters. If you don’t get a number of complete wraps, it won’t hit your attachment clips.


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Yeah but if it's too long then you can just cut it back to fit yea? The last wrap might be a thin one but that's ok.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:04 am 
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jfmckenna wrote:
Yeah but if it's too long then you can just cut it back to fit yea? The last wrap might be a thin one but that's ok.


Not exactly. It’s hard to explain without looking at it, but the important edge that has to line up with the opening for the attachment clip is the inside edge of the paper. Just cutting a short wrap doesn’t guarantee that the inside edge of the paper will align with the slot that is the opening for the attachment clip.

Now what you can do is cut the end on a point. Like an arrow head, which leaves a gap on both sides of the paper as it is heading into the attachment clip. That works and I considered doing that. But again, for a 16” drum, cutting it to 2.5” makes it work fine. You guys with 22” sanders are on your own. :D


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:39 pm 
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I reached out to Mark Roberts about this since that is where I first learned about using Abranet on the drum sander (see the video in my previous post for a nice tour of his shop). Here is his response:


I need to make a video posting for this, since I have been asked so many times. Two points. (1) the proper taper angle for the abrasive for any drum, and (2) location of the end clip.

First let me say, that I will never go back to regular abrasive for the drum sander.

(1) If you wrap the intended abrasive belt (width varies) perpendicularly around the circumference of the drum one time, so it just comes in contact with itself, and mark where the over lap occurs .... you have just found your ideal taper. Connect a line from that marked overlap point, and connect it to the opposite end of the belt. Draw a line, and cut that taper into the end.

(2) Insert the new tapered end and wrap the belt around your drum. When you get to the opposite end, you will see where the attachment point "needs" to be. Relocate your attachment clip. It's easy. I just marked the needed location, drilled a hole the diameter of the slot the desired distance from the edge, drew the two outer width lines of the slot, and used a Dremel with a good cutoff wheel to remove the aluminum for the slot lines, with the drum still attached. Now drill an appropriate hole for relocating your spring clip. Install the clip in the new location. You're done. Attach the Abranet.


So I guess that is another option that I hadn't considered. Mod the drum sander. :D

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:17 pm 
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bcombs510 wrote:
I reached out to Mark Roberts about this since that is where I first learned about using Abranet on the drum sander (see the video in my previous post for a nice tour of his shop). Here is his response:

...

(2) Insert the new tapered end and wrap the belt around your drum. When you get to the opposite end, you will see where the attachment point "needs" to be. Relocate your attachment clip. It's easy. I just marked the needed location, drilled a hole the diameter of the slot the desired distance from the edge, drew the two outer width lines of the slot, and used a Dremel with a good cutoff wheel to remove the aluminum for the slot lines, with the drum still attached. Now drill an appropriate hole for relocating your spring clip. Install the clip in the new location. You're done. Attach the Abranet.[/i]

So I guess that is another option that I hadn't considered. Mod the drum sander. :D


mmmm. I've gotta think about that one for a while. It sounds so simple. What could possibly go wrong? :shock:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:41 pm 
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To be clear - I’m not recommending modding the drum sander, but it is an option. I guess if it’s a older sander or you know for sure you’ll never sell it.

FWIW, I’m going to order a roll of the 75mm as well, just to see if it works without cutting.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:31 pm 
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I hope nobody actually mods their sander for paper.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:50 pm 
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Yeah, sure, you can add a sunroof to your car. You just need angle grinder . . .

No offense to anybody who thinks it is a good idea, but I ain't cutting slits, or drilling and tapping new holes in my drum, just to fit nonstandard sandpaper.



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:08 pm 
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doncaparker wrote:
Yeah, sure, you can add a sunroof to your car. You just need angle grinder . . .

No offense to anybody who thinks it is a good idea, but I ain't cutting slits, or drilling and tapping new holes in my drum, just to fit nonstandard sandpaper.


For sure. ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:50 pm 
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Unless it's the magic unicorn that Brad is suggesting..... :)
Sounds like it would be reversible.

Although just getting in that little tight spot to change the paper is annoying enough, let alone going full MacGyver!



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:19 pm 
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did anybody read the link I posted. Yeah, Brad said it would not work. Yet, my friends at sawmillcreek are doing it. I’m a little unsure why it’s “more complicated than I think”. I’m willing to walk out into the branch and prove it.

I just need one of u to send me a roll of 2 3/4 Abranet.



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:49 pm 
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Mike OMelia wrote:
did anybody read the link I posted. Yeah, Brad said it would not work. Yet, my friends at sawmillcreek are doing it. I’m a little unsure why it’s “more complicated than I think”. I’m willing to walk out into the branch and prove it.

I just need one of u to send me a roll of 2 3/4 Abranet.


Mike, you don’t need a roll of Abranet. Cut up your wrapping paper! :D

Bob did the same and saw first hand what I’m talking about. I’m not trying to be offensive, but it’s not just getting the taper and then reversing it on the other side. Seriously, cut a roll of paper 2 3/4”. I’ll wait here for your results. ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:59 pm 
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pat macaluso wrote:
Unless it's the magic unicorn that Brad is suggesting..... :)
Sounds like it would be reversible.

Although just getting in that little tight spot to change the paper is annoying enough, let alone going full MacGyver!


I would rather just cut the paper. :)

Actually I’m re-reading Mike’s link as well. I still think these guys all are using 3” paper.

Mike, do you see in the link where they are using weird width paper?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:15 pm 
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Maybe I’m over or under thinking this. I don’t have any 2 3/4 paper to prove it. But a thought experiment comes to mind. Are we seriously suggesting only one thickness would work? Granted, Mirka blows snot bubbles for not clarifying or providing guidance. But I’m 100% convinced any thickness could be used. If we did not care about end effects, taper, do u doubt it? Shame on mirka for using a non-standard width. Or for not providing guidance. But this is not an intractable problem. And I will buy a roll to prove it. If I’m wrong, then I will explain and document it. Lol. Man I’m stepping in it now.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:17 pm 
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Thought experiment: are u seriously suggesting I could not cover my drum with 1” wide electrical tape? 100%?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:17 pm 
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Thanks for giving it a try, Mike!

FWIW, Mirka doesn’t market their roll Abranet as for use with drum sanders. It’s 2 3/4” because that’s the width of the palm vacuum sanders they sell.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:17 pm 
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Double post, sorry


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