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| Finished build won't play :( http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=50114 |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
What top radius did you use? |
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| Author: | cablepuller1 [ Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
A 25' radius on the top Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
From what I gather from your posts, the neck angle is OK, but you didn't fit the underside of the fretboard to the top properly. At this point I think removing frets and leveling out the extension would be less work than removing the neck to take the material off the under side of the board. It depends somewhat on how the neck is attached: if it's a bolt-on it would be easier to remove than a dovetail. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
cablepuller1 wrote: A 25' radius on the top Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk This is why I went to a 28' radius. With 28', and level upper bout, this should be much less of a problem in future builds. I agree with Alan ^. Its very simple to do. Not ideal. |
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| Author: | cablepuller1 [ Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
Its a bolt on neck, only the extension glued down, I'm not sure best way forward. Have never pulled frets out before, but if I have to Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Fasterthanlight [ Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
Based on what you say about having to push the fingerboard down to glue is i think its ramped up post-14th fret. I've had this exact problem. You could reset the neck, but i think you would have end up with a very high bridge/saddle to compensate. What i ended up doing was pulling the frets and using a sanding beam to level the fretboard, talking to care to preserve the radius by even sanding accross the board wiht the beam parallel to the strings. Then i finished it off with a radiused sanding block to double ensure i preserved the radius. Then you have to recut the slots that are not deep enough and re-fret. The guitar now plays perfectly! There is one drawback though... you will most likely end up with a fingerboard that is not uniform in thickness... in fact if it ends up like mine it will taper down a little towards the soundhole. How much depends on how much you have to sand out to remove the ditch. Another thing... Working so close to the top need not be too scary... if you cut a piece of card or thin plastic to the shape of you top plus say 1/2" and then cut out sections for the bridge and fingerboard extension to poke through you'll be fine. Good luck. G. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
cablepuller1 wrote: Its a bolt on neck, only the extension glued down, I'm not sure best way forward. Have never pulled frets out before, but if I have to Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk Stewmac has these: http://www.stewmac.com/SiteSearch/?sear ... %20stopper Keeps damage to minimum. Also, get this: http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Ty ... l_Set.html And this: http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/To ... locks.html Mike |
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| Author: | cablepuller1 [ Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
Fasterthanlight wrote: Based on what you say about having to push the fingerboard down to glue is i think its ramped up post-14th fret. I've had this exact problem. Thanks for the info, good to know from someone has been through it. Maybe I can just sand the extension? You could reset the neck, but i think you would have end up with a very high bridge/saddle to compensate. What i ended up doing was pulling the frets and using a sanding beam to level the fretboard, talking to care to preserve the radius by even sanding accross the board wiht the beam parallel to the strings. Then i finished it off with a radiused sanding block to double ensure i preserved the radius. Then you have to recut the slots that are not deep enough and re-fret. The guitar now plays perfectly! There is one drawback though... you will most likely end up with a fingerboard that is not uniform in thickness... in fact if it ends up like mine it will taper down a little towards the soundhole. How much depends on how much you have to sand out to remove the ditch. Another thing... Working so close to the top need not be too scary... if you cut a piece of card or thin plastic to the shape of you top plus say 1/2" and then cut out sections for the bridge and fingerboard extension to poke through you'll be fine. Good luck. G. Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | cablepuller1 [ Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
Mike OMelia wrote: cablepuller1 wrote: Its a bolt on neck, only the extension glued down, I'm not sure best way forward. Have never pulled frets out before, but if I have to Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk Stewmac has these: http://www.stewmac.com/SiteSearch/?sear ... %20stopper Keeps damage to minimum. Also, get this: http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Ty ... l_Set.html And this: http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/To ... locks.html Mike Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
Yes, you can. That is what all that stuff was for. The 4" sanding block to create minimize the ramp. The rest to re-seat the frets. I know others in here will disagree. Its just one option. You also will need this: http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/To ... uller.html |
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| Author: | Fasterthanlight [ Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
Quote: Thanks for the info, good to know from someone has been through it. Maybe I can just sand the extension? Well i guess you do end up sanding that area more as it is raised, but the nut end will also get a little sanding. But really you need to sand all over to make sure the FB stays level. If you cover the fingerboard in pencil or white crayon scribble you can monitor your sanding progress by seeing what areas still have scribble on them. |
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| Author: | Pat Hawley [ Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
For any of you who now may doubt that a PLEK could solve this problem, it certainly could. While leveling frets is probably its "bread and butter work" a PLEK can do much more than that. In this case, for example, a PLEK could mill the fret board flat and to whatever radius you desired. After that it could deepen any fret slots that had gotten too shallow. I have seen one in action doing this sort of work. Pat |
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| Author: | sdsollod [ Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
Pat, I'm sure the PLEK is great, but who can afford one... The original post said, "I have got the saddle level set for a low action 2.0mm(0.08)+ 1.5mm(0.06) measured at the 12th fret". That sounds quite low to me. Perhaps with adjustment above the 14th fret and an action set at 2.5mm + 2.0mm your troubles would be over... |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: String Spacing preference |
Mike OMelia wrote: Yes, you can. That is what all that stuff was for. The 4" sanding block to create minimize the ramp. The rest to re-seat the frets. I know others in here will disagree. Its just one option. You also will need this: http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/To ... uller.html Or you can just buy some for $3 and grind the face flat past the bevel.
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
True dat |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
CP, ur profile doesn’t say where ur from. I’m guessing UK. Check this out, some are stewmac resellers. https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/s ... ?t=1576780 |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
Well, it seems that it's been established that your neck angle is actually where you want it to be, but your body geometry is incorrect. It's important to know that they are separate issues. In this case it seems your best option is to either -pull extension frets and attempt to grind down the hump - pull em all, create a perfect surface to refret With my own way of working, I would choose the latter. Yanking the frets and resurfacing is easier to me than trying to nurse the extension into compliance, but we all have different dispositions that we need to adjust for. I also feel that the best SOP is to level the FB after it's glued to the body but before fretting, which would have prevented this problem, but that my own operational bias. As for PLEKS, all they can do is what humans can already do. Which can be said about all things CNC. So I'm all for them, if controlled by a knowledgeable operator. They will do what you tell them to do, but you still have to know what to tell them to do. |
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| Author: | johnparchem [ Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
I have built a guitar like yours with the body angle too steep causing a ski ramp. I did mess around with half measures trying to fix it but ultimately as Ed suggested I found it easier to pull all the frets and level the fretboard. While leveling I watched to make sure I did not lose my slots near the sound hole so I was able to use them as a guide to saw the frets deeper. When messing with the fretboard extension I protect the top with tape and then a flat scraper on each side taped in place. If I slip with the saw I want steel protecting the top. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
CP not to be a pain and there is so much here to read though now did we establish your bridge height measured between the D and G at the face of the bridge? Neck angles are relative to the bridge/saddle to have any meaning. Thanks, Happy New Year too! |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
And this is why I now level the fretboard and install the frets after I attach the neck to the guitar. Just sayin , food for thought. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
I would like to fully understand the geometry of what is going on here. If the guitar top was perfectly flat, and the sides perfectly perpendicular to the top, then a ski ramp would be impossible. Right? Extension is either dead flat or a falls off (bent down). CP said his UTB was not domed and upper bout was not domed or close to dead flat. He also said his top radius was 25'. To me, is sounds the dome of the lower bout is then the cause? |
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| Author: | cablepuller1 [ Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
Hesh wrote: CP not to be a pain and there is so much here to read though now did we establish your bridge height measured between the D and G at the face of the bridge? Happy new year to you also HeshNeck angles are relative to the bridge/saddle to have any meaning. Thanks, Happy New Year too! Yes the straight edge over the bridge with coins on 1st, 7th, 14th frets lands above a coin on the bridge by 1mm(0.03), this is central between the G+D strings. Neck is flat 1st to 14th So pretty happy with the angle, I have been thinking about it today and maybe I left too much material on the fretboard extension when originally put a radius on it, as this bit is wider and would of been much more sanding and as I didn't use a sanding beam for the frets and used a smaller diamond leveller it may of got missed in the rush to finish both (must read the tortoise and hare story again) Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | cablepuller1 [ Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
Mike OMelia wrote: I would like to fully understand the geometry of what is going on here. If the guitar top was perfectly flat, and the sides perfectly perpendicular to the top, then a ski ramp would be impossible. Right? Extension is either dead flat or a falls off (bent down). Hi Mike CP said his UTB was not domed and upper bout was not domed or close to dead flat. He also said his top radius was 25'. To me, is sounds the dome of the lower bout is then the cause? As I just said to Hesh perhaps I left to much material on the extension when I originally put the radius on as it's wider and needs more sanding, It should of been picked up when i levelled the frets but my sanding beam was out of paper so I opted for a small diamond fret leveller. If I measure the nut end with calipers then the fret end later this should be apparent Thanks will let you know Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
So, you are saying that the board gets gradually thicker towards the end? |
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| Author: | cablepuller1 [ Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Finished build won't play :( |
Mike OMelia wrote: So, you are saying that the board gets gradually thicker towards the end? That's what I'm going to check now, it's all I can think to try Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk |
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