Official Luthiers Forum!
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=49963
Page 1 of 2

Author:  rlrhett [ Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

There has got to be a better way. I rip these long, push them through the band saw at an angle, then tediously cut the kerfs in a little sled with a mark 3/16 from the blade. Back and forth a couple of hundred times.

Commercially available, they were way expensive. More than ebony binding or an ebony fingerboard. For a 1/4” basswood strip mechanically kerfed!

Am I missing something? I’ve seen these elaborate steam punk jigs. Is there a simple jig that can eliminate some eye strain and mental fatigue? A source that I can get kerfed lining at a reasonable price (~$15 for a guitar, for eg?) Is there not a better way?

Thanks!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

LMI's linings are very nice and not that expensive. Or pony up the 200$ minimum order and get a batch from Gurian. I'm about to do that myself...

Author:  George L [ Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

Oops, I posted to the wrong thread. Sorry!

Author:  Clay S. [ Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

I make mine on the tablesaw. I use the 7 1/4 inch diablo blades and stack 3 of them on the arbor with spacers in between. I gang the strips about 10 at a time so every time I pass them through the saw I'm cutting 30 kerfs. I make reverse kerf linings this way. If I want triangular linings I will then resaw them on the bandsaw with a jig and have kerfed linings and tentalones (the off fall). Much quicker than bandsawing them.

Author:  Michaeldc [ Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

Here's what I'm using. As I recall it takes about 80 seconds to run a piece and it will make standard and reverse linings.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6zXhLX6M9FI

Author:  pat macaluso [ Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

Nice Michael! The good thing about Gurian, is that I think you can mix and match stuff to get to 200. I basically just dumpster dive there!

Author:  Michaeldc [ Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

pat macaluso wrote:
Nice Michael! The good thing about Gurian, is that I think you can mix and match stuff to get to 200. I basically just dumpster dive there!


I wish I wasn't on the other side of the water, I'd go with you...

Author:  J De Rocher [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

Even with a better way, how much money would you actually save making it yourself over buying it already made and how much is your time worth? You could do a guitar for $20.48 using StewMac basswood traditional kerfed lining or go whole hog and pay $26.88 to do a guitar with mahogany reverse kerfed lining. If you are willing to buy at least 8 pieces at LMI, you could do two guitars for $17.96 or $21.68 each. Or better still, at RC Tonewoods those two types would set you back $15.80 and $15.96 for one guitar's worth.

Author:  Woodie G [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

Martin Guitarmaker's Connection: $16 per set (plus shipping)
Blues Creek Guitars: $16 per set of triangular, $16.25 per set fat/triangular, $16.95 per set reverse kerf (plus shipping)

I suspect those prices are not what would be paided for 50, 80, or a few hundred pieces.

Author:  rlrhett [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

Thank you all. I don't know why when I went to LMI's site I thought the lining would be nearly $40 per guitar. That was several years ago, and I'm embarrassed to say I never checked back. Actually, at 32" per strip I would only need 4 per guitar. Not 8. That seems more reasonable.

I'll check out Blues Creek. That seems pretty close to the ~$15 per gutiar I was hoping for.

Author:  rlrhett [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

Michaeldc wrote:
Here's what I'm using. As I recall it takes about 80 seconds to run a piece and it will make standard and reverse linings.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6zXhLX6M9FI


THAT is the "steam punk" jig I was referring to! It is awesome beyond words. Unfortunately my brain can't process all that is going on there. That is more jig than I can pull off. Maybe I can get one of the master jig builders at the school to make one like that.

Author:  jfmckenna [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

There are a few things on a guitar which I just cannot stand to do myself and have no problem farming them out. Linings are one of them! I will make my own solid linings but purchase kerfed, what a PIA it is making those.

Author:  Bryan Bear [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

rlrhett wrote:
Michaeldc wrote:
Here's what I'm using. As I recall it takes about 80 seconds to run a piece and it will make standard and reverse linings.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6zXhLX6M9FI


THAT is the "steam punk" jig I was referring to! It is awesome beyond words. Unfortunately my brain can't process all that is going on there. That is more jig than I can pull off. Maybe I can get one of the master jig builders at the school to make one like that.


That is a cool jig to be sure but I don't see it as being practical unless you are making a ton of linings. By the time you buy the materials make the jig and work all the bugs out you will have a lot of time invested plus the cost of the materials. Then you still need to process the raw stock to the dimensions that fit in the machine. Then you have a large jig to store when not in use. . . I think many of us would be better off buying lining than making a jig like that.

I understand where you are coming from though. On one hand linings for a guitar are not a lot of money but on the other hand, that is a lot to pay for what it actually is. . . this is why I started using laminated linings; I discovered all the other benefits after I started doing it. Of course, it takes a longer. There is no free ride.

Author:  Clay S. [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

When I make linings I try to make enough for a year or more. It is a simple set up, but still, when I want to use them I want to have them on hand.
I am also experimenting with linings made out of wacky wood. They are easier to make and like the linings made by Ryan will bend in both directions. I know some are skeptical of the grain orientation, but it is a relatively large gluing area and a relatively small stress.
I can usually find enough scrap wood to cut the strips from, so it's mostly my time I'm wasting.

Author:  Michaeldc [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

Bryan Bear wrote:
rlrhett wrote:
Michaeldc wrote:
Here's what I'm using. As I recall it takes about 80 seconds to run a piece and it will make standard and reverse linings.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6zXhLX6M9FI


THAT is the "steam punk" jig I was referring to! It is awesome beyond words. Unfortunately my brain can't process all that is going on there. That is more jig than I can pull off. Maybe I can get one of the master jig builders at the school to make one like that.


That is a cool jig to be sure but I don't see it as being practical unless you are making a ton of linings. By the time you buy the materials make the jig and work all the bugs out you will have a lot of time invested plus the cost of the materials. Then you still need to process the raw stock to the dimensions that fit in the machine. Then you have a large jig to store when not in use. . . I think many of us would be better off buying lining than making a jig like that.

I understand where you are coming from though. On one hand linings for a guitar are not a lot of money but on the other hand, that is a lot to pay for what it actually is. . . this is why I started using laminated linings; I discovered all the other benefits after I started doing it. Of course, it takes a longer. There is no free ride.


I really enjoy making jigs and fixtures! Whether it's practical or makes sence financially..? It's the joy of figuring out a cooler way to do something.

Author:  George L [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

pat macaluso wrote:
Nice Michael! The good thing about Gurian, is that I think you can mix and match stuff to get to 200. I basically just dumpster dive there!


Michaeldc wrote:
I wish I wasn't on the other side of the water, I'd go with you...


I heard that he was retiring and wondered if the business was going to continue. Pat, if they're still open and you're up for company, I'd make that run with you. [:Y:]

Author:  Rodger Knox [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

I used to endure the "death of a thousand cuts" making my own reverse kerfed linings on a bandsaw. (There's about 1000 kerfs on a dred.)
I now use solid laminated linings, and will not go back. The benefits (stiffer rims, easier inletting braces) are worth the extra gluing time.

Author:  DannyV [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

A few photos. Pretty self explanatory.

I start by thicknessing the boards and putting a 3/8 rounder on the 2 outside edges. Then rip off the 2 outside edges. And go from there! It's done on a sled with an index pin the thickness of the kerf.
Attachment:
rsz_100_1466.jpg

Attachment:
rsz_1100_1467.jpg

Attachment:
rsz_100_1468.jpg

Attachment:
rsz_1100_1470.jpg

Attachment:
rsz_100_1473.jpg

Attachment:
rsz_100_1475.jpg


I now make them thick enough that they require bending in a side bender. It is the next best thing to a solid lining.

Cheers! Hope this helps!

Likely make 40 in 2 or 3 hours

Author:  meddlingfool [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

Sweet!

Author:  J De Rocher [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

George L wrote:
pat macaluso wrote:
Nice Michael! The good thing about Gurian, is that I think you can mix and match stuff to get to 200. I basically just dumpster dive there!


Michaeldc wrote:
I wish I wasn't on the other side of the water, I'd go with you...


I heard that he was retiring and wondered if the business was going to continue. Pat, if they're still open and you're up for company, I'd make that run with you. [:Y:]


Gurian did retire and he sold the business around the beginning of this year. It was bought by Kevin Almeida (who worked for Gurian) and his wife Cynthia who are operating the business in the same location on the barge. Very nice people.

Author:  Alex Kleon [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

DannyV wrote:
A few photos. Pretty self explanatory.

I start by thicknessing the boards and putting a 3/8 rounder on the 2 outside edges. Then rip off the 2 outside edges. And go from there! It's done on a sled with an index pin the thickness of the kerf.
Attachment:
rsz_100_1466.jpg

Attachment:
rsz_1100_1467.jpg

Attachment:
rsz_100_1468.jpg

Attachment:
rsz_1100_1470.jpg

Attachment:
rsz_100_1473.jpg

Attachment:
rsz_100_1475.jpg


I now make them thick enough that they require bending in a side bender. It is the next best thing to a solid lining.

Cheers! Hope this helps.

Likely make 40 in 2 or 3 hours


Very crafty Mr. Vincent!

Alex

Author:  Clay S. [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

Danny and I do something very similar.
A couple of other things I have tried is using a roman ogee profile, leaving the unkerfed portion thicker and then running it through the drum sander to thin it out and make it more flexible. The ogee makes them a little more decorative. Also when running the strips through the tablesaw I press them down to the table with a board over top to insure they don't ride up on the blades.

Author:  pat macaluso [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

George L wrote:
pat macaluso wrote:
Nice Michael! The good thing about Gurian, is that I think you can mix and match stuff to get to 200. I basically just dumpster dive there!


Michaeldc wrote:
I wish I wasn't on the other side of the water, I'd go with you...


I heard that he was retiring and wondered if the business was going to continue. Pat, if they're still open and you're up for company, I'd make that run with you. [:Y:]
He has sold the business to a long time Gurian alum. Fortunately it looks like things will continue the same as before.

Yes George, let's go raid the pile sometime!

Author:  Theo [ Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

Rather than a mark on my sled, I have a little tooth that grabs the last cut (piece of safety pin bent into a staple that matched my band saw kerf), also a forward stop. It goes pretty fast, muscle memory does the trick and not so tedious as looking at the mark, it might not be 80 seconds, but just a couple minutes a piece. I buy them too and sometimes use solid linings, but every once in a while I want to cut some.

Author:  Colin North [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Kerfed linings are the bring me old before my time!

Index pin on a bandsaw type jig, one at a time, music of my choice on loud, devote 2/3 hours of an afternoon to making 6 or 7 sets at a time.
At least I know they'll be better than what I've found commercially.

Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/