Official Luthiers Forum!

Anyone tried these?

http://www.precisionbits.com/6-piece-fret-board-radiusing-router-bit-set.html

there are better ways.
You will find that these are very difficult to use . You will need a good router table as you won't be able to keep this square with the free hand router.
I can radius a fret board in about 5 min with a belt sander and sanding radius block.

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

John,
Do you freehand with a hand held belt sander then finish up with a sanding block?

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

I'd say it takes me about ten minutes with a hand plane and various blocks followed by a sanding beam. The plane 'free hands' a lot of the waste, just hog it out. The blocks set an even radius and the beam makes it compound.

Some jigs are just overkill imho at least in the small shop but they are nice when you have a dedicated space for them and want to bang out a bunch of widgets.

I use the bits from SJE Tools the originator (sold on amazon now) with a router table and a jig to hold the fret board. SJE Tools is the first place I saw these bits and I watched them develop them over time. I like them.
I use them in place of the plane in the quoted process. I follow with a long radius bock and a narrow beam

_________________
http://www.Harvestmoonguitars.com

Any problem with chip out along the fret slots. Do you do a climb cut?

_________________
It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

I only use a conventional cut. My setup is not robust enough to risk a climb cut. I cut the slots after I do the routing. I do cut the frets by hand with the LMI jig so there is not the issue that those using a table saw for cutting the frets would have. I suspect there could be some tear out on a slotted fretboard,

_________________
http://www.Harvestmoonguitars.com

I thought chip out would be a problem when I first started using a hand plane but not once ever has it been. A sharp blade of course as we all know is paramount.

Lord knows I'm no expert, but I did a lot of experimenting with routers for fingerboards for a while, and I decided I like hand methods a lot better.

Those just looks scary. I suppose a router table and a robust support could make that safe enough but it made me cringe a bit when I was it. I suppose if you were cranking out a lot of fretboards this could be a good approach but doing one or two at a time seems like overkill. I think I could do one by hand with a hand plane in the time it would take me to set up the router and holding jug.

jfmckenna, I'm with you. I too thought that chippout would be an issue with a hand plane ant the fret slots but I have never actually had an issue. At our last Gateway Area Luthiers group meeting I did a demo of doing a compound radius free hand with hand planes. I made sure I warned of the possibility of chippout even though it has never happened to me . I think that the plane iron ends up almost always being slightly skewed to the saw kerfs and the kerfs are so narrow that there is always enough support. Also, I always take very lite bites with each pass. I don't do anything that would be considered "hogging off" stock since fretboards are so small that big bites don't really save any time.

_________________
Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

I use a jig in my drum sander, based on the method in Benedetto's book, and finish up with files, scrapers, and a radius block, not necessarily in that order.

_________________
A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

Long ago, when I first started building, I figured a good bandsaw and a 6x89 belt sander were obvious choices in tools. I used to glue the F/B on the neck and bump the whole thing on the sander. I'd put a turn in the T/R and sand the F/B flat and radius it freehand. Worked just fine.

I saw these a while back and have been considering, but am finding the responses previously to be quite interesting.

https://youtu.be/g7iyOj_zY-k

I don't know what my problem is but every time I touch wood on a belt sander I ruin it. I hardly even turn that machine on anymore.

I bought a 16" radius bit like those a couple of years ago. It looked tempting. I used doublestick tape to hold my fingerboard to a right angle fixture so I could cut the radius on the router table. On the second fingerboard, the bit grabbed the grain and destroyed the board. I put the bit away.

I've always just used the router jig that has been floating around the MIMF and OLF for years. With one of those rounded corner flat bottom core box bits and a 1/2" shaft with climb cuts it works just fine for a straight radius. I usually do the final leveling with the neck attached to the guitar with a SM bar and sandpaper along the lines of the string runs which gives a little compounding effect.



I've put off trying a plane but should try it. I can see that with enough skill you could do a nice compound radius. Do you guys plane the radius after gluing the fretboard or double stick tape it to a flat surface and do before?

_________________
It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

And that's why...I was a cabinetmaker for many, many years. If you didn't know how to use a belt sander, you just couldn't make it as a cabinetmaker. It takes practice and that's what I was told too when I started. I used a PC 3x24 portable and the 6x89 a lot.
Something you could try is to use a 150 grit belt instead of 80 grit and learn on something less aggressive...

^ I think I have 120 grit on mine now. Yeah I definitely can see that as being a learned skill, it's all about touch.

As for when I use a hand plane, the last thing I do after even finishing the guitar is joining the neck to the body (bolt on) and then planing out the fretboard radius and fretting the guitar. I've found that when I do it prior to joining the neck if I am ever so slightly off on the neck angle I might have too much fall away or something like that. So it's the last thing I do which I guess just goes to show you the confidence I have in not getting chip out. It think that's probably as Bryan mentioned, the plane blade does attack the wood at an angle so it does tend to shear as it cuts.

I'm certainly no expert and I'm sure there are better procedures but here is what I do:

I like to radius and fret off the neck. Yes I know there are disadvantages. . . I cut the slots on a squared up board then cut and plane the taper to width minus binding. I double stick tape the board to a piece of marble clamped to my bench. I set my plane for a really fine cut and keep it there. I would rather take 3 times as many strokes as I need than deal with any potential issues from being too aggressive; there is so little wood to remove that starting deep and readjusting the plane as you get close is false economy.

I have used a number 4 but really like the length of a number 5 for this. I use my #62 or a #5 depending on which is sharpest at the time; I like the adjustable mouth of the #62. I start planing at the nut end with the plane tilted at the corner like you would chamfering an edge with a block plane but shallower than 45 degrees. I plane away using the taper of the board and the imaginary string paths as my mental guide, all the time the bed of the plane is tilted a bit relative to the face of the board to create the radius (I hope that makes sense).

I only measure the radius at the nut. I remove the material I need to in order to achieve the nut radius I want and always take full strokes the length of the board. The taper and string paths make each stroke get flatter in radius as it approaches the other end. I don't measure at the 12th fret or end because I frankly don't care what the number is. The plane ensures that the surface is flat/straight along the string paths which is what you are after.

Sometimes I follow this step with a narrow sanding beam (using the imaginary string paths again) to smooth out the facets but not always. With a fine enough cut and some practice you don't really have much in the way of faceting when you are done and I like the planed surface better anyway.

After I'm happy with the radius, I check to make sure the slots are still deep enough then glue the binding on and flush it up with a plane.

_________________
Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Sponsor here, Luthier Suppliers: http://www.luthiersuppliers.com/products/p12.html

Works great.

Mike

Like many here I worked in cabinet work and as a machinist I have developed some good hand skills. I use 80 grit on my stationary belt sander. I wouldn't think of using a free handed on.
I can rough a radius in a few passed then useing a sanding block I can true it up pretty fast. There are many ways to do any one task. Find the technique that works for you.

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

We have the luxury of CNC machines now but prior to that we shaped the radius with a contoured sanding block with 60 or 80 grit, knock the outer surfaces off with a sharp plane and finish up in the fixture shown:

_________________
Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/