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| heel/tail block question? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=49377 |
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| Author: | jason72 [ Thu May 18, 2017 5:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | heel/tail block question? |
Does the heel block gluing face have to be flat or can it be slightly curved before gluing to the sides? Same for tail block? |
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| Author: | Casey Cochran [ Thu May 18, 2017 5:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: heel/tail block question? |
Shape it to fit your mold or shape of your guitar. |
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| Author: | edstrummer [ Thu May 18, 2017 6:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: heel/tail block question? |
The tail block I sand to match curve of body with a small flat area for wedge but the neck block being flat and a matching flat spot on body makes fitting heel much easier. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Thu May 18, 2017 7:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: heel/tail block question? |
It completely depends on your design. I make a few guitars with an arched head block and a a couple dead flat. Tail blocks seem to always have some arch to them though, at least in my designs. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Fri May 19, 2017 4:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: heel/tail block question? |
It is easier to get a tight, square fit, body to neck if you have a flat surface to joint to. So i make that area flat. On the tail block, i put a slight radius, but just because i prefer a little there for looks. |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Fri May 19, 2017 5:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: heel/tail block question? |
I too like to have the neck mating surface flat, I found that this strategy makes it a bit easier to final fit this joint. But on all my models the outer edges of both blocks are contoured at least slightly, to aide in getting a smooth transition when gluing the blocks to the sides -- I have a contoured (Bondo) sanding fixture which makes the process pretty easy. 
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sat May 20, 2017 1:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: heel/tail block question? |
I'll be the contrarian here. I radiused my tail blocks AND neck blocks and personally think that continuing the gentle curves on say an OM or L-OO looks more deliberate. Fitting the neck may seem easier on a flat surface but I've never had any issues fitting to a radiused neck block. It's the same flossing technique regardless. Mind you my opinion, and that's what this is, opinion is subjective and not even historically accurate. I just like the look of curved surfaces being continued with repetition of at least shape. |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Sat May 20, 2017 2:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: heel/tail block question? |
+1, (and the SJ looks pretty neat too) necks not difficult to floss in as long as it's undercut properly with narrow edges. Heel cap area can be tricky, if attached, but I do them separately anyway. |
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| Author: | Clinchriver [ Sat May 20, 2017 5:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: heel/tail block question? |
I like the curves 
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Sat May 20, 2017 7:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: heel/tail block question? |
Curve guy here too. |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Sat May 20, 2017 7:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: heel/tail block question? |
I've always thought it looks a bit awkward when there is a flat spot on the upper bout at the neck join, but I guess it depends on your body shape. Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Sun May 21, 2017 12:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: heel/tail block question? |
Actually, I only flatten an area just a little larger than the heel width. I have never notice a flattened look on the body. |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Sun May 21, 2017 1:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: heel/tail block question? |
I'm with Joe -- sure if you go overboard with heavy handed sanding it might not look right, but the process is a gentle blending procdure. |
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Sun May 21, 2017 2:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: heel/tail block question? |
Another fan of curves here. I radius both blocks on my guitars. Attachment: IMG_6911c.jpg
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| Author: | Woodie G [ Sun May 21, 2017 2:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: heel/tail block question? |
We shape the blocks to get an exact fit and hot hide glue in place - a sharp block plane and across-the-cut witness lines to visualize the stock removal seems to work well. Fitting the neck on a neck reset to the existing body curvature is just another part of repair work here, so for new guitars, the technique is well understood - no adjustment to body shape, and especially not those shapes like the 0 and 00, or the SJ which possess such delightful curves through the heel area. As for heel cap fitting, we use a cheat that allows for a lot of pre-fitting, but leaves the cap just long enough to allow flossing for a perfect fit. We shape the cap to the side curvature (a half pencil with a shim works here), then trim the heel to the correct angle, put two layers of low-tack blue tape under each cheek and clear of the heel cap area, then bolt on the neck. The heel cap is glued in place and allowed to dry for a bit...it will be about 0.006" long, so a quick job to do a final floss into place. |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Sun May 21, 2017 2:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: heel/tail block question? |
Interesting different take on the heel cap Woody. Using a mortice & tenon joint, I floss the heel without the cap, then fit a plastic spacer around the tenon and floss the heel cap against the body. Replace the plastic spacer with grease-proof running to the back (glue-proof) paper, tighten the bolts, then butt and glue the heel cap on. Carve, sand to fit the heel, job done. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sun May 21, 2017 3:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: heel/tail block question? |
As for heel caps what I used to do and still do with neck resets when the cap is off is this: 1) Tape 220 paper over the area on the rim where the heel cap will live. 2) Floss/sand the heel cap off the neck, neck not on the guitar. 3) After the cap has the curve and is gapless in it's future location I tape cheap, thin.... waxed paper over where the neck and cap will be installed. 4) The neck is installed but not glued. 5) I put a small dot of medium CA in the center of the cap and Titebond original around the perimeter of the cap's gluing surface. 6) The cap is positioned on the neck heel, centered, held in place for 10 seconds until the drop of CA grabs. 7) The CA holds the cap in place so no need for clamps until the Titebond dries, I wipe away the squeeze-out. 8) Neck with heel cap is removed and waxed paper is removed and pitched. 9) Since both the neck cheeks and heel cap were both held off the actual rim by the exact thickness of the wax paper the resulting fit is often perfect. If not a couple quick swipes with 320 and it's good to go. Back on topic. Because I radius my neck and tail blocks flossing in the exact location that the cap will go imparts the gentle curve and is very fast to do. Good thread! |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Sun May 21, 2017 3:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: heel/tail block question? |
I'll concede that a neck like the one in Jay's pic would look crazy weird if the body was sanded flat. I glue and shape the heel cap to fit the finished neck |
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Sun May 21, 2017 7:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: heel/tail block question? |
Hesh - Thanks a bunch for that tip about putting the drop of CA in the center of the heel cap. The approach I use is pretty much the same as yours including the wax paper. The CA would be a good addition. |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Mon May 22, 2017 8:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: heel/tail block question? |
Hesh wrote: As for heel caps what I used to do and still do with neck resets when the cap is off is this: 1) Tape 220 paper over the area on the rim where the heel cap will live. 2) Floss/sand the heel cap off the neck, neck not on the guitar. 3) After the cap has the curve and is gapless in it's future location I tape cheap, thin.... waxed paper over where the neck and cap will be installed. 4) The neck is installed but not glued. 5) I put a small dot of medium CA in the center of the cap and Titebond original around the perimeter of the cap's gluing surface. 6) The cap is positioned on the neck heel, centered, held in place for 10 seconds until the drop of CA grabs. 7) The CA holds the cap in place so no need for clamps until the Titebond dries, I wipe away the squeeze-out. 8) Neck with heel cap is removed and waxed paper is removed and pitched. 9) Since both the neck cheeks and heel cap were both held off the actual rim by the exact thickness of the wax paper the resulting fit is often perfect. If not a couple quick swipes with 320 and it's good to go. Back on topic. Because I radius my neck and tail blocks flossing in the exactly location that the cap will go imparts the gentle curves and is very fast to do. Good thread! Aaaaand.... this is how I'll be doing it from now on as well. Thanks for this. I feel kind of silly thinking how many times I've battled this setup in the go bar deck: Attachment: IMG_1892.JPG Brad |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Tue May 23, 2017 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: heel/tail block question? |
On my last guitar: - After the neck was fit . . . - Without the heel cap glued on . . . I used a protractor to match the angle of the back to the angle of the heel cap just like Mike Greenfield does at 35:48 in the Stereokroma documentary: [youtube]http://youtu.be/sAeXskZHC2o?t=35m48s[/youtube] Then I trimmed to that line, bolted the neck in place, and flossed the heel cap to match the curve of the body. Then I used CA to glue it in place with a hit of accelerator, again, like Mike does in the documentary. I radius my heel and tail blocks with a radiused sanding blocks that match the curves. Mine are either 16' or 20' (can't remember off the top of my head), which makes it pretty easy. I have also just adhered adhesive backed sandpaper to the rim and flossed the block to fit. When I do that, I fix a ruler in place with double-sided tape to use as a guide just to make sure I keep things square. This is how I fit the corner block for florentine cutaways, too. |
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