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Truss Rods from China
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=49215		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  WilbPorter [ Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Truss Rods from China
I have been looking at Chinese made truss rods on Aliexpress and they seem rather inexpensive. Has anyone had any experience using these rods? I would appreciate any feedback on this. Understandably, a truss rod is not a place where you want to compromise when building a guitar.
Author:  kencierp [ Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
The design of the import rod is fine -- the reputation of Chinese manufacturing quality control leans toward poor. If you install the 1 in ? that has a weld failure is that worth a few bucks initial savings. I really think you know the answer to your OP.

We use Martin factory rods -- single and two-way, I have not heard of a failure, which makes sense since Martin has no desire to mess with warranty issues.
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
Yup,

Once you have had a Chinese made rod snap a weld on a brand new guitar just about to go out you realize that paying a little more for a well made device is worth every penny.

I use the Blanchard rod but have looked at and taken apart the Martin two way rod and it looks great. I'd certainly use it with no concerns.
Author:  Clay S. [ Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
Has anyone had experience with the Chinese rods? I know in the past people have had issues with rods from various vendors - were they sourced from China?
Author:  Colin North [ Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
Terence Kennedy wrote:
Yup,

Once you have had a Chinese made rod snap a weld on a brand new guitar just about to go out you realize that ....

you should have tested it properly before fitting?
Author:  Haans [ Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
30-40 bucks is not too much to spend on a Blanchard. I've tried all kinds and once you have to get one out, 40 bucks is cheap for a rod that works. I'd rather buy a good T/R and use mediocre tuners than have Waverly's and a 10 buck T/R.
Author:  dzsmith [ Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
I've used around 20 on electrics.
No problems so far.
$6 a pop, 2-day free shipping from Amazon.
Author:  JSDenvir [ Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
Martin. If they're good enough for a company that turns out thousands of serious guitars, they're good enough for me.

Steve
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
Colin North wrote:
Terence Kennedy wrote:
Yup,

Once you have had a Chinese made rod snap a weld on a brand new guitar just about to go out you realize that ....

you should have tested it properly before fitting?


I did.
Author:  Pmaj7 [ Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
Yeah, they work great. Until you get the one that doesn't!
Author:  bluescreek [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
there are 2 basic designs
if you have welding or silver solder on the threaded rod toss them . if there is a mechanical cylinder that is welded to a bar that is a design like martin they are reliable.
so we can call one the Martin style and the other a twist off rod .
The ones I had that snapped were the Stew Mac Hot rod
there was another 2 way design that was to be high end it also snapped
Martin design for me only.
Author:  Imbler [ Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
bluescreek wrote:
there are 2 basic designs
if you have welding or silver solder on the threaded rod toss them . if there is a mechanical cylinder that is welded to a bar that is a design like martin they are reliable.
so we can call one the Martin style and the other a twist off rod .
The ones I had that snapped were the Stew Mac Hot rod
there was another 2 way design that was to be high end it also snapped
Martin design for me only.


John or others: Do you have pictures to explain the two styles? I know it is obvious to you, but I'm not quite sure what to look out for,
thanks, Mike
Author:  bluescreek [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
I can't post pictures I don't know why but the software on this forum never lets me post.
The concept is simple if you see a threaded rod and they attach the active nut to that they are junk
this is a god picture of a proper design

http://www.bitterrootguitars.com/Produc ... hgodSTcMFw

here is one I wouldn't use
http://www.bitterrootguitars.com/Produc ... hgodMRECyA

when you look at the 2 designs you can see how the business end is welded. The weld on the threads is a no no I had used a few in my early days , not from bitteroot but the hot rod and there was one LMI had all failed. I use Martin rods and get them from the same maker.

thi
Author:  Imbler [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
Thanks John, I see what you are saying now,
Mike
Author:  kencierp [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
Here's the Martin two-way rod very clever design much more secure weld arrangement:

Image

Image
Author:  J De Rocher [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
John - I'm trying to understand why the design of the first truss rod is better than the second one. I take your post to mean that the nut welded to the end of the threaded rod is a weak point in the second rod, but in the first rod isn't the cylinder just a threaded housing covering the end of the the threaded rod and wouldn't that threaded rod end also have a hex fitting welded to it? Maybe I don't understand the design of the second rod.
Author:  bluescreek [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
no it doesn't
look at the open martin rod Ken just posted that is the key there is no weld on the threaded rod.
Author:  Tim L [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
I don't think it's that the weld is on the threads as much as the welds are done on the wrong side of the head to allow for the use of an allen wrench. If it was a straight hex head and the weld was on the far end it would be fine. The rods shown in the picture not only is the weld shown in an unsupported overhang but it is tabbed on in two locations, or worse just the one. Silver solder on that design should work just fine as it doesn't take as much heat and will flow through the whole head. Doesn't really look like any of those welds have good penetration.
FWIW I don't use that style rod but prefer the Benedetto style. Simple and lighter, but it's a whole different concept from the styles you are showing.
Author:  J De Rocher [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
bluescreek wrote:
no it doesn't
look at the open martin rod Ken just posted that is the key there is no weld on the threaded rod.


How does the hex head in the Martin rod Ken posted drive the threaded rod? Does the end of the threaded rod have a male hex end (or something like that) that fits into the end of the hex head you can't see inside the cylinder so that there's no weld required?
Author:  Tim L [ Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
I agree with you Jay. I think there is more than meets the eye.
Author:  truckjohn [ Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
My experience with China made stuff like this is that while the "average" quality may be fine enough - there is a lot of fallout that gets shipped. It reminds me very much of USA huge factory quality prior to the 1990's. And you dont know what you have till it fails or doesnt.

I think the root of it is that these things are made in nameless huge factories full of unskilled labor in China. By and large - in the USA and Europe, these things are made in small boutique type shops or one man shop sort of places. Those guys (like Mark Blanchard) have a reputation thats easy to ruin. A few bad units getting out and being blown up on the forum would hurt his business in a major way..
Author:  J De Rocher [ Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
I asked above how the adjustment nut in truss rods in which the nut is housed inside a cylinder drives the threaded rod if the nut is not welded to the end of the threaded rod. I'm interested in knowing the answer because if welding the nut to the threaded rod is a no-no and a potential point of failure, I'm open to switching to a type of truss rod in which the nut is not welded to the threaded rod. Since I don't have x-ray vision that allows me to see what's inside the housing on that type of truss rod and how it works (even more so in photos of truss rods), I emailed StewMac and asked them about the two-way truss rod they sell that's similar to the first one that John provided a link to above.

The StewMac rod: http://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and_Supplies/Truss_Rods/Low-profile_2-way_Truss_Rod.html

The answer I got back is that on the StewMac rod the adjustment nut inside the cylinder housing is in fact welded to the end of the threaded rod. Since their rod has the same potential point of failure as the rods I use now, there's no point in switching to that design based on that potential deficiency. Given that the nut is welded on in the StewMac truss rod, how is one to know that it isn't also true for other truss rods of the same or similar design?
Author:  Tim L [ Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
The advantage would be in the supported and enclosed overhang past the threaded block.
Author:  J De Rocher [ Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
I can see how the housing would provide support against lateral loads, but how much lateral load does that part of a truss rod ever see in an acoustic guitar with access through the sound hole? I would say little to none. It seems that the main stress on the weld would be twisting stress from adjusting the rod and I don't see how the housing would help with that.

I asked the StewMac person what the function of the housing is and got this somewhat puzzling reply:
"The sleeve helps the rod stay snug in the channel to prevent any rattling. Since the rods push against each other when being adjusted the sleeves allow a smoother movement than metal to metal contact." idunno Not sure he understood the question.
Author:  kencierp [ Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Truss Rods from China
Quote:
How does the hex head in the Martin rod Ken posted drive the threaded rod? Does the end of the threaded rod have a male hex end (or something like that) that fits into the end of the hex head you can't see inside the cylinder so that there's no weld required?


The Martin rod is fairly complex in that the part that turns has a hex socket machined in on end, is threaded at the other end plus has a thrust collar stop with brass bearings -- correct more than meets the eye.
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