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wells/karol precision router base
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=48861		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  phavriluk [ Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  wells/karol precision router base
I've watched Chris Paulick's video on making this router base a bunch of times, and I even bought the materials. If I were to start making it tomorrow, I'd need to buy another router bit. Got everything else.

Questions for the group:

Has anybody made this router base using the video as a guide?

Has anybody made this router base from the paid-subscription instructions from Wells? Is the information necessary or will gleanings from Paulick's videos be enough?

Is this router base worth the trouble of trying to make? i.e., is wasting the materials and builder's time easily achieved?

Thanks, folks.
Author:  kjaffrey [ Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: wells/karol precision router base
I built a copy of this jig and absolutely love it. The precision is great and the fine adjustments really let you sneak up on the perfect channel width. I think I made it roughly following Chris's instructions and it worked fairly well. If I had it to do over again I would use a harder plastic because it would drill and tap easier but that is about it.

I don't remember using a router bit while making it, though my recollection may be faulty, what would it be used for?

Kent
Author:  phavriluk [ Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: wells/karol precision router base
Kent, thanks for your comments. The router bit, I sowed some confusion. The bit is what's installed in the router to cut rosettes or sound holes. Nothing to do with making the tool.

Back to my questions on Chris's video. Is there enough information there to build the tool, or would purchasing Wells's group of tool projects, including the router base, be helpful?

Thanks very much.
Author:  Woodie G [ Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: wells/karol precision router base
What information do you feel you need beyond what Mr. Paulick's video provides? We've built a half dozen of these jigs in the past year or two, and there is little in the way of complexity. Having done two for my own use, I opted to buy a 3/4" piece of black Delrin for base material...$60 worth of plastics (12" x 24" x 3/4" piece from Ebay), but I was able to get four bases out of the stock (plus enough material for another couple bases when and if) and it cuts, threads, and reams beautifully. Lexan would have been my other choice for base material, as HDPE or other 'cutting board' type plastics are a little tougher to work and do not hold fine threads as well.

The one critical step is drilling the base for the rails - best done on a well set up drill press with a quality brad point bit or split point bit modified for plastics work, and then reamed with a .2505" chucked reamer. If you have an inexpensive source of .250" drill rod for the rails, it can save some work versus using the typically slightly oversized galvanized or plated big box store 1/4" steel rod stock.

We add a 10-24 or 1/4-20 nylon or Delrin set screw to the pivot block to eliminate any slop with undersized axles around which the jig rotates...mill and thread so that the end of the set screw bears against the axle in use.

Good luck making your jig - we've found it to be a very precise, very flexible tool for milling rosette channels or other circular work. There are some threads on where to find inexpensive end mills, including recommendations from Mr. John Hall on where he sources his. We usually keep a 1/4" shaft, 1/8" down-cut Whiteside router bit handy for wasting large areas, such as for solid wood or radial rosettes, plus 0.023", 1/32", 1/16", and 3/32" end mills for narrower channels...usually under $7 each delivered from several suppliers. Keep in mind that standard square ended end mills are designed to cut to no more than 3x their diameter...trying to cut deeper results in excess heat and poor chip clearing.
Author:  phavriluk [ Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: wells/karol precision router base
Woodie, you've answered it all. Wonderful array of details, in answer to your wondering what else I wanted, not much that I can think of.

Thank you very much. Gonna have a fun day in the shop.
Author:  phavriluk [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: wells/karol precision router base
Moving right along...Paulick doesn't mention the big hunk he cut out of the Porter-Cable cast metal router base so that it uncovers the 'tongue' of the UHMW base he is making. Seeing as I already have one of those very routers, I wonder if it is necessary to cut away the router's base plate. Sounds like radical surgery and if it's not necessary, I prefer not to.

Thanks, folks.
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: wells/karol precision router base
phavriluk wrote:
Moving right along...Paulick doesn't mention the big hunk he cut out of the Porter-Cable cast metal router base so that it uncovers the 'tongue' of the UHMW base he is making. Seeing as I already have one of those very routers, I wonder if it is necessary to cut away the router's base plate. Sounds like radical surgery and if it's not necessary, I prefer not to.

Thanks, folks.


Just make a copy of the base out of your choice of materials, and modify it instead of the original.

Alex
Author:  phavriluk [ Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: wells/karol precision router base
Not referring to the molded plastic (bakelite?) shoe screwed to the bottom of the base casting, I'm referring to hacking a great hunk out of the base casting.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: wells/karol precision router base
phavriluk wrote:
Not referring to the molded plastic (bakelite?) shoe screwed to the bottom of the base casting, I'm referring to hacking a great hunk out of the base casting.

It's not necessary to cut the base of any laminate trimmer for the Wells Karol base if it is constructed properly. I suspect Chris did it for better visibility. Many of us use a dedicated laminate trimmer for the base so it would not be a big deal to modify it.
Author:  Woodie G [ Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: wells/karol precision router base
I am not certain why Mr. Paulick chose to use a PC 7301 over other choices, but in discussion with the boss, modifying the base as shown should not have much if any impact on other functions or on the micro-adjust function. If you have not purchased a trim router to use, there may be better choices at around the same price point that have an open base design or at least a clear view of the bit in use.

- Ridgid 2401 trim router, which has an open, split base casting (completely cut away between the four base mounting machine screws on two of four sides. In addition to a functional micro-adjust, the LED lighting while running (but not when setting up the cut!) works well, and we've found the tool holds up about as well as the Bosch Colt.

- Bosch Colt, which has a useful micro-adjust and relatively open (but continuous) base casting. Does not come standard with a sub-base that takes a PC bushing set or with built-in lighting. We've seen a higher failure rate on Bosch bearings than other brands of routers, but we have been able to pull and replace those bearings without too much trouble. Base is a bit larger than the Ridgid.

- DeWalt compact router. Uses the same screw collar design depth adjustment as their larger 2-1/4 hp designs, has a relatively open base design, and good LED lighting. We have one of these in the shop, but have not put enough use on it to recommend the tool based on anything other than suitability. Also note that it's a little larger than the Ridgid or Bosch.

In use, we seldom need to see the bit for standard, continuous-ring designs (which would not be the case for something like a segmented or interrupted design). We use a scrap piece of mdf or ply as a dummy top, drill for a post, and make the test cut for each purfling element, adjust, then mill the top channels.

Adjustments are made relative to the first cut, so a .075" channel is made with an initial check on absolute distance from the center of the rosette, a complete pass on the top, then a 0.012" (1/4" rotation of the 1/4-20 adjustment rod...20 complete turns = 1 inch of adjustment, so 1 turn = 0.050", and 1/4 turn = 0.0125" of adjustment). it's worth attempting to do rosette layout relative to either the inside of a channel or the outside on the initial cut...it's easy to make a bit-width error if not consistent. Best practice is a visual check on the dummy top, which we lay the rosette out on at full scale prior to drilling for the pivot axle.

It's worth noting that any dummy top work adds wear and tear on the bits used - especially plywood or MDF, which are both more abrasive than most solid woods. Having to fabricate the dummy top and do those partial cuts costs time as well, so the boss - when doing a top himself - just does the adjustments under the area of the fretboard extension (where we start and finish every cut) and avoids the extra work. When working with students, a dummy top is used as much to allow them to check their arithmetic as to give them the feel for the task prior to committing to $60-$300 worth of top wood.
Author:  phavriluk [ Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Thanks!
Steve, you confirmed my suspicions, nice to do, not absolutely necessary. Thank you. I'll hack on the base if I think it will be a good idea in practice. I didn't want to chop on a forty-dollar part unless I had to to make the tool work. I'll try the tool as-is, first.

Woodie, thanks very much for taking the time and trouble to respond in depth. Learning new stuff is what hobby activity supports, when we do something we could never do professionally, either through lack of talent, experience, or opportunity. Always thought that professional folks distinguish themselves in great part by their efficiency and effectiveness of their task completion, not always (but mostly) by the quality of their results. They gotta be able to get done with enough economy of time and effort so as to make the work commercially viable. Can't spend all day doing a one-hour job unless you're doing it for personal use. A lot of times a hobbyist can get the same results as a professional, just in ten times the time.

As for the router, I bought it a while ago from a luthier who had no further use for it. Before I decided to make a Wells/Karol base. Nice tool, hardly used, price was right. Better than the HF cheapie that's sitting in the box. Best for the job, probably not. See above.
Author:  phavriluk [ Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: wells/karol precision router base
Well, I've made all the holes the base needs, and tapped the ones that need to be tapped. I found that Pawlick's suggestion of holding the UHMW stock against a triangle for drilling alignment of the holes parallel to the top of the device - - - wanting, for my comfort. Much easier and more controllable for me was to stand the stock upright in a drill press vise hold the stock parallel to the drill bit and test the squareness of the material to the drill bit. Everything was as square as it needed to be. And it worked out fine. Drill press table was in fact square to the chuck and it was dead easy to drill the holes. Took less time for me to drill and tap the holes than it did to lay them out.
Author:  phavriluk [ Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: wells/karol precision router base
Made all the holes but one - - - the pivot axle. I get headaches trying to imagine the geometry of the tool in this regard. Is the location of the pivot critical to getting some reasonable precision, or is it good enough to try to center the pivot, in my case within a 16th of an inch. If the pivot is not dead-centered within the tool, does that only imply that the orbit of the router is not quite where we'd guess it to be, but that doesn't matter because the whole device orbits the pivot anyway?

My headache continues. Advice and corrections will be much apreciated.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: wells/karol precision router base
A reasonable attempt at precision is a good thing, however, there are only two points to worry about with this tool - the pivot and the router bit. If you are within a 1/16" you will be fine. What is more important is that the adjusting mechanism be smooth with no slop.
Author:  Ken Lewis [ Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: wells/karol precision router base
Yes you are right, it's only the distance from pivot point to bit that determines the radius of cut.
The more precise the better though. Should be easy enough to get within 1/64" or so by marking
the center with a scratch awl or fine pencil and then dimpling it with an awl or other sharp object.
For me this method works better than using a center punch when precision is needed.
Ken
Author:  phavriluk [ Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: wells/karol precision router base
Thanks, everybody, for the attention and advice. All good, all useful. Much obliged. Last comment about fabrication, I used a #31 drill (.120") for the pivot hole in the base. My 1/8" music wire pin pushed in readily and I think it's decently secure. Depending on how I feel about the UHMW for the tool, after some use, I might re-create the tool in wood. I am a bit skeptical about the ability of the threads for the thumbscrews and setscrews to work right in the plastic, maybe not enough material to hold position. I'll see. I can get threaded inserts into the wood easily enough, if they can't be installed in the UHMW. Sure wish I had a milling machine to make the cutout for the nut in the moving block.
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