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| Danger, Will Robinson! http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=48806 |
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Danger, Will Robinson! |
I got this photo in an email today. Does it give anyone else the heebie jeebies? Attachment: Ottter router.jpg
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
dang straight it does. |
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| Author: | Pegasusguitars [ Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
I have been doing a lot of router table work lately making some kits. I too found that in my e-mail, and it is just plain bizarre. Someone's head should roll for that one! |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
If there was a starter pin, I'd have no problem doing it, but I would still be wearing a full face shield. Alex |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
Why? Seems a reasonable setup to me. Everything has risks. That seems fair to middling. Yet, my preferred approach is a paper template (glued on) and the spindle sander. Safer, and more controllable. I do something very similar for rounding braces. |
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| Author: | JoeM [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
Mike O'Melia wrote: Why? Seems a reasonable setup to me. Everything has risks. That seems fair to middling. Yet, my preferred approach is a paper template (glued on) and the spindle sander. Safer, and more controllable. I do something very similar for rounding braces. Fingers are way too close to the bit. It's really easy for the cutter to grab the part and pull your hand in. I had that happen on a much larger piece, that was absolutely no fun. |
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| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
Mike O'Melia wrote: Why? Seems a reasonable setup to me. Everything has risks. That seems fair to middling. Yet, my preferred approach is a paper template (glued on) and the spindle sander. Safer, and more controllable. I do something very similar for rounding braces. Mikey, No,no,no,no. That is not a reasonable set up. Please don't do that or advocate that. Too small a part. Fingers too close. There are many other better safer ways to do that. Just because one can get away with it doesn't mean it is prudent. Even with the small dia. bit and small cut it is not a good idea. Those things help reduce the risk of a catch but don't eliminate the possibility. The right jig and procedure reduces the chance of a catch and protects you if there is one. L. |
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| Author: | Clinchriver [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
Nope, not a matter of if its when. |
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| Author: | david farmer [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
Mercy. The bit is even spinning for the photo. I can hear the photographer saying," hold it right there!" A pretty tense pose I'm guessing! The back of the bridge is a straight line. There is absolutely't NO REASON the contour pattern can't be on a larger piece. Wedding bands should always symbolize something better than a tragedy too. Take them off, or the older folks on the forum will have to start telling ugly stories. |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
david farmer wrote: Wedding bands should always symbolize something better than a tragedy too. Take them off, or the older folks on the forum will have to start telling ugly stories. I can tell a story about de-sheathing from my old rock climbing days. Google it, or on second thought... Seriously though, I've been using a rockler laminate trimmer table for a while now that is I think the same thing, more or less. I use it to shape headstocks on. I use a flush cut bit with the template on top as opposed to a pattern bit. I trim it pretty close on the bandsaw so really just removing a small bit of material in tiny bites. Am I asking for it with that setup? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
Could be safe, Where are you hands/fingers during the operation and will they get pulled into the bit if there is a catch. L |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
Link Van Cleave wrote: Could be safe, Where are you hands/fingers during the operation and will they get pulled into the bit if there is a catch. L This is always the most important question. Whatever I do with a router, I want my hands to be far clear of the bit, and for a safety tool to get mangled instead of me if/when something goes wrong. |
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| Author: | George L [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
Yeah, those hands appear old enough to know better. Be careful out there people. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
I have no trouble with the size of the bit, or the size of the piece of work, my trouble is with the size of the hold down fixture. |
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| Author: | Doc [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
I have a firm rule when using power tools--body parts, especially fingers need to be at least 3" (preferably more) from cutting edges. And my last thought before actual cutting/routing/whatever is "how safe is this?" |
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| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
meddlingfool wrote: I have no trouble with the size of the bit, or the size of the piece of work, my trouble is with the size of the hold down fixture. True that. You are being generous calling that a fixture. More like a template with a couple of brass knurled nuts. As you said size of bit is fine. Bearing on top of bit.........requires more thought and or caution Size of work piece is relevant because he is holding with just his hands and it puts them too close. Small pieces need fixtures, fixtures that put your hand/body parts out of harms way . Another thought is why would anyone want to do what he is doing? If you are doing a one off then just shape it by hand(you have do that for a template anyway) and if you are doing a run then it is worth it in terms of time, safety and accuracy to make a proper jig. L. |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
Link Van Cleave wrote: Could be safe, Where are you hands/fingers during the operation and will they get pulled into the bit if there is a catch. L The other side of the headstock when doing the sides and up on the neck area when doing the top. My template is 3/4 ply and is on top. I typically set the bit depth so that the bearing is riding centered on the template. It all feels safe and under control to me. I haven't had any catches that made me nervous. Like I said, I get it really close on the bandsaw and then just take small bites with the smallest flush cut but that rockler sells. I think it's 1/4". Appreciate the feedback! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
Sounds safe but I can't tell you from here whether it is or not. Stuff happens, you have to think it though. One thing I will say is that most of the time I prefer 1/2" shank bits if possible. Way less flex and there for safer. Obviously for smaller work and small amounts of material removal a 1/4" shank can be adequate. Don't force things, templates that are double stick taped can flex so you need to watch that. I use a dead blow hammer or clamps to really set things when using double stick tape. L |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
Remember that things are always safe right up until the time they aren't. If you hear that little voice that questions if what you are about to do is a good idea, stop. It is way too easy to think, I'll just do this really quick and it will be done. As to the wedding ring, we should all remember to take them off when we go in the shop even if we don't plan on using power tools in the session. I replaced the stylish flat light switch in my shop with one of the older style toggles. Now when I go in and turn on the light I hang my ring on the switch, I don't put it back on until I turn out the lights and leave. |
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| Author: | Mike_P [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
I agree with about everything having been said here re: safety issues... now, that rule about 3" from a spinning tool, well it must be nice to have that ability to make such a rule! makes me think of the time I have to apply 1 1/8" lip moulding to a 'frame' made of 3/4" plywood with 1/4" plywood having been routed for and inserted from the back side...the pattern demanded ended up with some of the pieces being less than 2" long point to long point of the 45* miters...yeah, rather scary, but you do what you have to do and realize you're most likely not the first to do so...of course, be 'scared' etc. which should create an attitude of extreme awareness and process of dealing with it and creating it...my comments on it all are to train your body to get the hell out of harm's way when something goes south...I don't care if you're dealing with a piece of master grade BRW, is that wood more valuable than a finger? of course not! as far as the real subject of this thread, I have to agree...sure, I can argue that if one cuts the bridge within a 1/16" of final dimensions it's 'pretty safe'...still...I have to totally agree a Robo Sander is a far better option considering safety. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
NO NO NO NO !!!!! there are better ways to do this. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
Well, I agree there are better ways. The same thing can be accomplished using a properly setup spindle sander. Right? And that is what I would do given the general tack taken. So, for the general welfare of the forum viewers, I withdraw my earlier comment. Use a spindle sander. Not a router. Maybe I should have "tested" said concept before commenting. Fear and danger go up with proximity of fingers to spinning cutter mass. I do howeve use a similar approach for brace round over. But my fingers never get that close. |
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| Author: | printer2 [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
The only way I would do it as shown is if the part was already close to the right size and I was only taking a couple of thou off to clean it up. |
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| Author: | Ken Lewis [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
Those bolts and thumb screws that hold the template could also hold a robust handle to keep hands out of danger. I prefer to use a fixture to maintain an acceptable margin of safety whenever I can. viewtopic.php?f=10117&t=45549 Ken |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Danger, Will Robinson! |
Yes, it is to close for comfort for me. |
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