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Outside dust collector?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=48552		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Andy Birko [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Outside dust collector?
So - business is going relatively well so my dust collector runs for a good portion of the day and that collection bin ends up full much faster than one would think it would. My back is injured at the moment and I'm due to get surgery but until then (and probably for a good chunk of time after) I have to really watch what I'm carrying to make sure I don't make things worse. The full bin probably weighs 80lbs or perhaps more and it's really becoming a chore to empty it so often or to transfer it to multiple bags to make sure I don't injure my back more. Eventually I'd like to move in to a dedicated workplace but for the foreseeable future, Birkonium will remain in the basement.

I've been thinking of moving my dust collector to the garage and simply running a duct down into the basement workshop.

I know that some folks have done so and I'm wondering what effect it will have on interior air. Remember that on big days this thing could be running for 12 or more hours at a spell. With all that air moving from the inside to outside, am I going to have massive problems with humidity and temperature control? The dust collector is an old Oneida cyclone which moves a considerable amount of air.

Any advice?
Author:  Colin North [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Outside dust collector?
Could you recycle the air?
Author:  Clay S. [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outside dust collector?
One shop I worked in had a dust collector located in a shed built on the side of the shop with outside doors. When cleaning the bin you didn't have to worry about spilling the dust back into the shop. The air was returned to the shop through filters so heated or cooled air wasn't lost. Without an air return I think you would have problems controlling temperature and humidity.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outside dust collector?
12 hours a day will cost a fair amount to maintain temperature and humidity control. You could almost hire a kid to come over and empty the bin regularly for that cost. :)

Clay's point about air return is interesting. If you are returning air from a garage (large space) you will essentially be trying to climate control the garage through the ducting. Is there any way you could partition off a smaller section of garage and seal and insulate it well? Like a closet in the garage with a door to get in and empty the bin.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outside dust collector?
Possibly use a smaller bin that is easier to empty, and empty it more often?
Author:  Andy Birko [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outside dust collector?
Bryan Bear wrote:
Clay's point about air return is interesting.


It is indeed interesting. I imagine that to do it right, I'd need either a really large duct for return air or another blower for return air. Otherwise, I'm going to lose a lot of air flow to the DC due to too much back pressure from the "collection room".

Another possibility I though of is a secondary cheapie DC in the garage with a duct going down, I could just suck up the dust. Heck, I could probably make a hole in the bottom of the collection bin and keep the hose permanently mounted. Just run it once a week or something to transfer chips.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outside dust collector?
I'm just thinking out loud (figuratively) so there are probably obvious reason this wouldn't work.

My DC is in a closet in the shop I have a home made cycloneish trash can between the impeller and the line. The line goes into the trashcan lid and is directed against the side of the can. The impeller pulls air from the middle of the trash can lid. Air being pulled through the can gets swirled along the side of the can before it goes out to the DC. Some of the heavier stuff falls out there. The air then goes through the impeller and is forced out into the ring where the dust is collected in the bag under the ring and the air returns through the pleated filter above.

Could you put a cyclone in the garage that feeds air back down before it gets to the DC? perhaps that cause too big of a drop in efficiency. But, having the bulk of the chips and heavy stuff end up upstairs might be well worth it.
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outside dust collector?
I have a drum with a cyclone separator lid inline to my dust collector. Only the really fine dust gets to the DC collection bag.

Alex
Author:  doncaparker [ Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outside dust collector?
If the problem you are trying to solve is the hassle and potential for injury of carrying large bags of waste up a flight of stairs, then I think there are better solutions than tinkering with your dust collection system. Putting in another run of pipe decreases the CFM of the system, so that's a downside. You lose a lot of heating/cooling/RH control by chucking conditioned air out into the world; that's bad. Depending on what type of heating system is in your house (gas, for instance), pulling that large a draft out through the dust collection system could REALLY be dangerous, so you should hire a heating professional before you make your final plans. I'm intrigued by the idea of a second dust collector, to be used only for sucking the first dust collector's crud up a flight of stairs every so often. That could work! Just be careful. You move a lot of air for a large part of the day, so there's a lot to consider.

Leaving aside the main issue of getting the crud up a flight of stairs, I am one of those that has my dust collector motor, impeller and cyclone out in the garage, but I send the return air back to my shop, where the filters live. These are short runs, just through a wall. It works great! No real loss of conditioned air, and no pressure issues that could cause the heating system problems I referenced above. If you can keep the runs short, this is not a bad thing to do.
Author:  kencierp [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Outside dust collector?
Quote:
Another possibility I though of is a secondary cheapie DC in the garage with a duct going down, I could just suck up the dust. Heck, I could probably make a hole in the bottom of the collection bin and keep the hose permanently mounted. Just run it once a week or something to transfer chips.


Exactly!
Author:  Mark Fogleman [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outside dust collector?
I use a remote control to cycle my DC on and off as I use my large machinery. If you're busy enough to need a DC running most of the day and thinking about moving your DC exhaust outside, you may want to consider a large air to air heat exchanger which will limit your heat loss. I assume living in MI, summer would not be a problem. One big benefit of moving a DC outside, other than less noise in the shop, is an increase in system airflow if you can eliminate any small particle filter you have on the DC and let anything small enough to make it through the cyclone go into the atmosphere or into a screened bin. This reduces any back pressure caused by the filter's resistance.

There are collection bin level alert systems you can diy or buy turn-key and install into your bins to let you know when to empty them.
Author:  bobgramann [ Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Outside dust collector?
Or, you could redesign the bin to make it very easy to empty and then empty it every day, either at the start or the finish of work. It the bin were easy to snap in and out and only had 5 to 10 pounds in it, would there be a problem anymore? I use a thirty plastic gallon trash can for my bin with the lid pierced by a flexible 8 inch hose dropping down from the cyclone. It's pretty easy to snap out (but since I don't have to do it very often, I haven't figured a design where I don't have to vacuum the dust that escaped when I carry it out).
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