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Years ago when Rick Turner was posting here he was a fan of using epoxy to attach fretboards to eliminate any warping from water based glues.

I tried it and liked it but after a time had to remove one for a broken truss rod and it was a mess. I went back to Tightbond and lived with a little irregularity that had to be leveled out. Never had one dead flat even if clamped in the caul for a couple of days.

After watching the Greenfield video I decided to try epoxy again and just recently glued two up. Dead flat after the caul and clamps came off. I think I am going back again.

Thoughts on epoxy and fretboards?

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Ha! Well eventually you will find what you like

I guess it depends on building methods. I only level the FB after the whole project has been finished and the neck is permanently attached. I would do that whether it was epoxied or water base glued. If I fretted the FB off the neck or even fretted the neck separate from the guitar before attaching it then I'd have to rely on the very best methods to keep everything straight.

While I haven't done it yet (next week), I have my Smith's All Wood epoxy ready to go.


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I've used both and have not found, in my experience, any difference in the results. Sometimes I have to level a tiny bit regardless of which glue I used.
James, one tip on Smiths. I have some and it is thicker than other epoxies I've used, and the longer you have it, the thicker it gets. I asked the folks at Smith's what to do when it thickens and they to put the bottles in the sun and let them warm up. I have done this and soaked the bottles in warm water and it does help it flow better.

I used to use epoxy and now use HHG, I am trying to not use epoxy at all.

I do get distortion after gluing but it has been predictable and I am building in the amount I expect to see in movement. I have assumed, though have not had to do it, that I could release and "spring" the board if it was more/less than I wanted.

When I did use epoxy I found it very predictable. I used smiths and WEST. I do remember Mark Blanchard having issues with Smiths under nitro at the FB joint. I cannot remember the details, however.

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Burton
http://www.legeytinstruments.com
Brookline, MA.

Many fine builders use epoxy to affix fingerboards to necks.
And repairman hate them.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I use West System for gluing fretboards and I've never had a problem.

I recently had to remove one because it slipped during glue-up due to a dufus move on my part. Removing it was easy--just warm with a heat gun on a low setting, warm a putty knife with the same gun, pry gently. Takes a few minutes. In this case, I had already epoxied position markers into the board, which I didn't want to remove, so I heated from the neck side (the neck was unfinished). No problem.

In my building, I use hide glue, fish glue, Titebond I, and very occasionally, CA. Of these, epoxy is by far the easiest to release. One caveat: unless you scrape away all the epoxy really thoroughly, you need to use epoxy to reglue.

As I learn, I'm using fish glue and HHG more and more, but I still like epoxy for fretboards.

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Tim Allen
"Never hurry, never rest."

I've done ep*xy for fret boards many times and IIRC Mario and Rick were what got me started with the ep*xy.

Then along comes my friend Link who made a very convincing argument that ep*xy is more dampening than say rock hard HHG and I have to agree with the thinking. Link thought it counter productive to place a dampening glue between the fret board and the neck.

As such to me the jury is still out and based on my experience with everything else tradition may just have had this nailed too, not literally.... but figuratively.... nails suck....

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Ann Arbor Guitars

I use HHG no problems at all. I have a massive bench and glue fingerboards on Sunday afternoon leaving them clamped to the bench all week, they all have come off straight.

I use epoxy, and I agree it is relatively easy to get the fret board off with heat. I learned early on, from my first attempts, that it is relatively easy to starve an epoxy joint by over-clamping, and I had to learn to go much lighter on the pressure than I was used to using titebond for the same step or for larger woodworking project assemblies.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

I've been using epoxy after I experienced significant back bow on a Les Paul with set neck where I used Titebond.

I also tooth the underside of the fingerboard too as recommended by Mario Proulx.

Here's an old thread
viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=38706&hilit=epoxy

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Thanks for the thoughts guys. Good info.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

FWIW I use fish glue for gluing up my FB on ukes , It has some advantages and some negatives..I/ve tried epoxy, but if u screw up it/s a real PITA, fish is more forgiving, and while the cleanup takes time, it/s more user friendly IMHO. I use sysytem 3 . Some luthiers prefer epoxy. I have used it as well. But down the road it might create problems . for repair .

We use hot hide glue. All of our new construction sees the unfretted fretboards go on before the neck is shaped, and we always use a very still I-beam MDF strong-back with fitted caul, a half dozen medium-sized Bessey Tradesman clamps to get a few thousand pounds of clamping pressure at the glue line, and we let things dry for a full 48 hours. We've used West System, fish, and Titebond on this joint as well, but found that hide has the best combination of release, cleanup, compatibility with waterbased finish, and prep for reglue. We've never had a neck that changed shape due to excess moisture, but we've always used some sort of dead flat or strong-back system for neck glue-ups and an extended drying cycle.

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We have become a civilization that elevates idiots, prostitutes, and clowns. Am I still to defend it? Yes, for its principles. Yes, for what it was. Yes, for what it still may be.

-Mark Helprin, The Oceans and the Stars: A Sea Story, A War Story, A Love Story (A Novel)

Can someone get rid of this mahi dweeb?

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

stopped using epoxy
I use any good wood glue. The more I do this the less I use epoxy and CA

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Old thread eh? I am back to using Tightbond Extend. Have been for quite a while. That is where I am staying.

I don’t know why but the extend seems to dry to a harder more brittle state compared to regular Tightbond. Kind of like the old LMI white.

Anyway if I leave them clamped in the caul for a couple of days the irregularities are pretty minimal.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Bot revival! I often wonder how much glue people use that causes distortions. When I’m done spreading it’s a very thin layer. If you put your finger in it’ll take a fingerprint and make a ‘schlick’ sound when you take your finger off...

I have always used Titebond, but it is true that ebony (if you can still find it) is a big mover when moisture is added. I only had a problem once when I got over zealous with the titebond.

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

Anyone dampen the topside of the fingerboard before clamping to ‘compensate’ for the moisture on the gluing face? I’ve heard about this trick from several people but when I’ve tried it I don’t notice a real difference. I don’t really get a ton of movement anyway; I use HHG and a very rigid caul.

I don't bother to dampen the other side of the board when glueing. I use a lot of clamps and let the glue-up set overnight. I've never had any problems while using Titebond or HHG.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Once you commit to arching the fingerboard and installing the frets later, after you glue/bolt (whichever connection method) the neck to the body, it doesn’t matter if there is water in the glue. I just use hot hide glue for this joint, because I use it for all glued joints on a guitar. This also makes it easier to use a rigid caul, because the fingerboard is still uniformly flat at this point. There’s a whole lot to be gained by arching and fretting later in the process.

I've routinely dampened reverse side of ebony FBs and bridges for gluing, especially rift/flatsawn to prevent cupping, successfully.
(if using water based glues

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Yep. I use HHG and usually get a visible glue line otherwise, even though the board is not yet radiused at the time of gluing. Perhaps a caul with the surface scraped slightly concave would be able to concentrate enough pressure at the edges to force them down, but the water trick works well, and actually eliminates the need for a caul entirely which speeds up the clamping process. I just stick a bunch of cam clamps along the board like this:

But I may try epoxy on the next one. I have had to remove a board glued with HHG, and it was a horrible struggle and the board was all bent and cupped by the time it came off. A glue that releases with heat alone would likely come off with less damage. It would also be nice not having to deal with the super short open time of HHG.

Dampen? As with water? No. But I religiously spread a thin application of Titebond on BOTH surfaces. That was drilled into my head as best practice whenever using PVA glues.
I’ve never experienced movement of any of my fingerboards, about half of which are Indian ebony. Skill, best practice, or dumbass luck?


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