Pressed the sumbit button a little early?
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| Antes Parlor Bridge Layout http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=48052 |
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| Author: | Spyder [ Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Antes Parlor Bridge Layout |
Getting ready to start making my first Guitar bridge. I know that many on this forum have built Parlors to the Antes plan, so I would very much appreciate any suggestions as to the slot layout for the saddle. Which dimensions work well for compensation, how to determine the angle, depth of slot, etc. Any help will be much appreciated! Feels so good to finally be at this stage! My finish looks great (to me anyway) and is curing nicely. Hopefully by next week it will be ready to sand and buff, so I'll soon be ready to install the neck and get this thing strung up! |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Wed Jul 20, 2016 2:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antes Parlor Bridge Layout |
I recently finished a guitar from that plan. As for depth of the slot, I think I hit 6mm. *edit* I used the SM calculator to locate the saddle slot. It worked out pretty well along with the compensation done on the bridge. Intonation turned out pretty good. Something to think about though is the bridge pin spacing. Apparently it is a bit wider spacing than the typical Martin style bridge. I made a bridge exactly according to the plan and the string spacing was too wide because I had reduced the fretboard width a bit to accommodate my 9 year old (the build was for him). So I ended up having to remake the bridge, plug the holes and then made another bridge with the typical Martin spacing. Hope that helps. |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antes Parlor Bridge Layout |
I used the SM calculator to locate the saddle slot on mine too. Worked fine. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antes Parlor Bridge Layout |
Colin North wrote: I used the SM calculator to locate the saddle slot on mine too. Worked fine. Yup +1 |
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| Author: | MrBing [ Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antes Parlor Bridge Layout |
It's been suggested to me to radius the top of my parlor to 52'. And the back to 15'. Can someone tell me from their experience works best or help explain the advantages or disadvantages to certain radiuses effect on the guitar? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antes Parlor Bridge Layout |
Increased radius lowers the frequency of the plate, tighter radius increases the the frequency. Increasing the radius can also give a bit more resistance to low humidity. A really flat top is less resistant to cracks if the guitar is dried out. I would just stick with the plans for early builds. If you start varying the radius, you may have to modify the bracing. (Edit) And you will have to vary the neck/upper bout angle as you change the radius, gets a little more complicated. |
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| Author: | MrBing [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antes Parlor Bridge Layout |
Colin North wrote: Increased radius lowers the frequency of the plate, tighter radius increases the the frequency. Increasing the radius can also give a bit more resistance to low humidity. A really flat top is less resistant to cracks if the guitar is dried out. I would just stick with the plans for early builds. If you start varying the radius, you may have to modify the bracing. (Edit) And you will have to vary the neck/upper bout angle as you change the radius, gets a little more complicated. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antes Parlor Bridge Layout |
Pressed the sumbit button a little early?
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| Author: | MrBing [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 2:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antes Parlor Bridge Layout |
MrBing wrote: Colin North wrote: Increased radius lowers the frequency of the plate, tighter radius increases the the frequency. Increasing the radius can also give a bit more resistance to low humidity. A really flat top is less resistant to cracks if the guitar is dried out. I would just stick with the plans for early builds. If you start varying the radius, you may have to modify the bracing. (Edit) And you will have to vary the neck/upper bout angle as you change the radius, gets a little more complicated. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk The problem is, I started out with KMG's Martin size "2" template. This does not come with a full set of plans. Ken contacted Preston guitars who builds the martin size "2" and shared with me that he uses a "52" radius on the top and a "15" on the back. I purchases the Scott Antes small concert (parlor) style plans since it seems to me the soundbox dimensions are very close. I do not see top and back radius indicated anywhere on these plans. Maybe I just don't know where to look. When I mention the "52" top radius to other builders, some are surprised and wonder why it is so low. I have spent a lot of time preparing my redwood top. I would like to emphasize the lower frequencies which would indicate I ought to use the "52" radius, but I do not have the experience to know if that will create a problem with cracking. I do not have a humidity controlled room. Can others chime in here with either the Scott Antes radius and where I should see it on the plans or the radius that they decided to use? Also, are there martin size "2" plans available I just haven't found? Thanks in advance for any help Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antes Parlor Bridge Layout |
Just took a look at my plans, and there is no mention of top or back radius, only for the back - slight radius, shape braces. I have one in the works with 28'R top, 15"R back, because those are the radius dishes that I have. Alex |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antes Parlor Bridge Layout |
I used 25' top and 15' back, same reason as Alex. |
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| Author: | Ken Lewis [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antes Parlor Bridge Layout |
" I do not have a humidity controlled room." John, While I wouldn't say it is impossible to build without humidity control, (I'm sure some may do it without ramifications under certain conditions), I would suggest some research into the effects of doing so, especially if your locale requires winter heating. Just in case you're not already aware of this. Ken |
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| Author: | MrBing [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antes Parlor Bridge Layout |
Colin North wrote: I used 25' top and 15' back, same reason as Alex. Thanks for the replies. I think I will follow your lead and use the same top radius as I would on most any other guitar. But what is that radius? A quick look on the internet and I come up with 12 choices. 12' 15' 20' 24' 25' 28' 30' 35' 40' 50' 52' 65'. This leads me to believe the difference in one or two degrees radius must be critical. But when I search for practical answers to the reason why it eludes me. Why not settle on 3 or 4 standard sizes and be done with it? There must be something I am missing. Sometimes It is hard for me to tell when guitar builders are simply splitting hairs. For example, if I am buying a drink at a sandwich shop it makes sense to have four sizes to choose from. If I am just a little thirsty I might get a small. Most times I am just fine with a regular. On the other hand, if I am trying to make sure my elderly parents get their medications right, I better make sure my 125lb mother does not take the same dose as my 200lb father. But if I am trying to be smart and make the best guitar I can, my head starts spinning with all the information out there. I am just trying to figure out what is important. After all, it takes me a year in my free time to build a guitar and I wont know if I messed up until the end. I am all set to make my own radius disks. I am building this parlor guitar at the same time as an L-00. The L-00 plans call for a 28' top radius and a 15' back radius. I want to make just two dishes and be able to use them on all of my current and future builds. Should I make a 52' disk? Should I make a 26'? Or is the 28' a better choice? What if my measurements aren't perfect and my dish is somewhere in between? Am I just being foolish? Thanks for any kind and understanding replys Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antes Parlor Bridge Layout |
You don't need a radius dish to build a radius into a top or back, John. You can radius the braces, and clamp them in place using deep throated clamps. You can build your choice of two dishes, but not be limited to them. As far as accuracy, as long as the radius is consistent, being off by a bit shouldn't too much of a concern. Alex |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antes Parlor Bridge Layout |
Most people use 15 for the back and either 28 or 30 for the top. There are exceptions of course, but that's a good place to start. In addition, everyone has to figure out an approach to address the neck angle. Some use a bigger radius for the ufb, some sand a flat angle into the whole rim above the sound hole, for me, I just send a flat spot into the ufb and I use a special jig to sand the soundboard flat in the area that the fretboard connects to. |
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| Author: | bcombs510 [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antes Parlor Bridge Layout |
I used 15 and 30. Same reasons as everyone else, it's the set of dishes I have. I followed Hesh's tutorial on here for a set of rims I finished recently for getting the upper bout flat. Check in the tutorial area for it. I also put the upper transverse on flat. I did that even without sanding the rims and the results were still pretty good. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antes Parlor Bridge Layout |
A contoured plate has a tiny bit more surface area than a flat plate that perfectly fits the guitar perimeter. A benefit of this is that when humidity drops the plate can shrink and still fit the profile. Thus the flat plate is more prone to cracks. Also a perfectly flat plate will tend to look concave under finish. You do not need a dish to glue the braces to the plates -- but I do not like the idea of compressing/re-shaping the contour of a brace by gluing them on using a flat surface. Here's an alternative to a radius dish that works perfectly. http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/contourtool.html |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antes Parlor Bridge Layout |
Slick, Ken! Alex |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antes Parlor Bridge Layout |
Alex Kleon wrote: You don't need a radius dish to build a radius into a top or back, John. You can radius the braces, and clamp them in place using deep throated clamps. You can build your choice of two dishes, but not be limited to them. As far as accuracy, as long as the radius is consistent, being off by a bit shouldn't too much of a concern. Alex Bing: I concur with Alex. Also I think you have a few other good things going for you. Redwood,going to move less then spruce. Small guitar, thus less over all movement. Radius, not etched in stone unless you want to be a dead on copy, so drop the radius a bit, most likely the Redwood nixes the exact thing. With correct building conditions (RH) and correct handling after building I feel you don't have a problem with the stated radius. Just my opinion of course. Tom |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Antes Parlor Bridge Layout |
Don't get too hung up on the small differences in radii. Think about this. Go out and draw a circle using a 28 foot long rope on a steak. Do the same with a 25 foot rope. Now section out a 20 inch section of both arcs (roughly the length of the top). Try to envision the difference in these two very, very shallow arcs. I'm sure you can imagine that you won't be able to tell them apart unless you lay them on top of each other. Yes, they will result in a slightly different stiffness (all things being equal) but you will be thicknessing the top and carving the braces. Both will have greater effect on the stiffness than a 3 foot difference in radius. I would just pick a top and back radius and make two dishes. If you decide you want to go shallower for this parlor, use one of the above alternatives to the dish. Unless you think you will make a bunch of parlors then make a third dish. |
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