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epoxy and superglue
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Author:  petguitars [ Tue May 24, 2016 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  epoxy and superglue
http://us1.campaign-archive2.com/?u=fd6 ... 0eb60b97bf
Bob Smith Industries Epoxy and Superglue Now available in The Petros Guitar Shop.
These are the best epoxies and superglues in my opinion. I have been using these exclusively for over 30 years. That doesn't mean I have never tried other brands, because I have, and I have always come back to BSI products. My local supplier has retired and since I use so much of this stuff, BSI has allowed me to become a dealer.
I use the 20 Minute Finish Cure for pore filling on our guitars and also use it with the black powder for filling our Purflex® purflings and rosettes. All of the epoxies are an easy 1 to 1 mix and I have NEVER had a failure with this stuff. Of course we use super glue for tons of things in guitar making. We fill our finger board position markers with ebony dust and drop some Insta-Cure super glue in there and sand it off. Easy peezy! We also use the Insta-Cure for spot filling finish holes. Sands easy and disappears. We glue our binding on with Insta-Cure as well. We use the Maxi-Cure to spot glue our Purflex® purflings in before filling. Insta-Cure can be used as a stand alone finish for small objects and we use it all the time for that. I've alway been tempted to finish a whole guitar with it. I'm convinced it would work, just haven't tried it yet!
We use the Quick-Cure 5 minute epoxy for tons of operations too numerous to mention. The 30 minute is handy if you don't think you have enough time with the 5 minute.
Give this stuff a try. You'll never know how you got along without it.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Wed May 25, 2016 12:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: epoxy and superglue
Thanks so much for SPAMMING us.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Wed May 25, 2016 12:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: epoxy and superglue
Well, he is a sponsor...
Author:  Colin North [ Wed May 25, 2016 2:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: epoxy and superglue
My thoughts when I read it.
Maybe just a little quick on the trigger Chris? :o
Author:  Chris Pile [ Wed May 25, 2016 4:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: epoxy and superglue
My sincere apologies. I glanced and thought it was his 1st post...
Author:  Woodie G [ Wed May 25, 2016 7:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: epoxy and superglue
Thanks for the notification, Mr. Petros! Is the 20 minute finish cure material non-blushing? I ask because we've been using MAS low viscosity resin with a slow, non-blushing hardener for filling, and find that - while it handles better than West 105/207, but only one coat a day is possible. A faster cure to a non-shrinking, sandable surface would be of interest.

Also - thanks, Mr. Pile, for your willingness to acknowledge your error and leave the unaltered record behind. Moral courage: such an attractive quality in a person, and yet altogether too rare in these modern times.
Author:  petguitars [ Wed May 25, 2016 8:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: epoxy and superglue
Woodie, I believe the "20 minute" refers to its open working time. It certainly does not dry in 20 minutes. One coat a day is what we do. Not sure what blushing is, but my thought is that this stuff does not blush! Some folks squeeze it off with a credit card. We do not. We put it on then scrape and sand between coats. Two coats is what we use. You have to make sure there is a continuous coat, that is no sand through spots, as it will finish a different color. Inevitably, there is a sand through spot here and there, so on the third day, we mix a small amount and rub it on over those spots with a finger to bring the color back. Unquestionably, this is a messy and labor intensive process, but the results are a beautiful depth of color to any wood and no artificial color in the pores. My original reason to try this was because I did not like color in the pores or the shrinking. It is also compatible with any finish as far as I know.
Sorry if this is considered spam. I am not a big "forum" guy.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Wed May 25, 2016 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: epoxy and superglue
I'm looking into odorless CA's now, got any of that?
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Wed May 25, 2016 9:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: epoxy and superglue
petguitars wrote:
Woodie, I believe the "20 minute" refers to its open working time. It certainly does not dry in 20 minutes. One coat a day is what we do. Not sure what blushing is, but my thought is that this stuff does not blush! Some folks squeeze it off with a credit card. We do not. We put it on then scrape and sand between coats. Two coats is what we use. You have to make sure there is a continuous coat, that is no sand through spots, as it will finish a different color. Inevitably, there is a sand through spot here and there, so on the third day, we mix a small amount and rub it on over those spots with a finger to bring the color back. Unquestionably, this is a messy and labor intensive process, but the results are a beautiful depth of color to any wood and no artificial color in the pores. My original reason to try this was because I did not like color in the pores or the shrinking. It is also compatible with any finish as far as I know.
Sorry if this is considered spam. I am not a big "forum" guy.
r

Thanks for the valuable info. I would never consider this spam.
Author:  Clay S. [ Wed May 25, 2016 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: epoxy and superglue
Always nice to know sources for materials.
Thanks!
Author:  petguitars [ Wed May 25, 2016 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: epoxy and superglue
I will respond to the Blushing issue. First of all, I have never had that problem after about 400 guitars. I didn't even know of the problem. After looking into this, perhaps it is because I have always maintained a climate controlled room for both gluing and finishing (over 70 degrees) and humidity level of 45%. Apparently this is ideal for eliminating the blush problem. Charlie Smith, the new head guy at BSI, sent me this information:
Bruce,
We have never experienced blushing with our Finish-Cure, but this may be due to our generally low humidity here in California.  This is a good explanation:

     Amine blush is caused by the preferential reaction of the amine curing agent with atmospheric carbon dioxide and moisture to form ammonium carbamate compounds. It is typically a SURFACE phenomenon, where the free amine functional groups on the surface film layer combine with Carbon dioxide and humid air (water) to form hydrates of amine carbonates. External risk factors for occurrence of amine blush are high humidity and low ambient temperatures (dampness). Both risk factors facilitate water availability to the amine by condensation process for the carbamate formation. Intrinsic risk factors attributed to the product are a slow epoxy-amine reaction, improper mixing (excess of curing agent), inadequate mixing (minimum induction time after mixing of base & curing agent), presence of low molecular weight amine in the curing agent/ hardener.(These amines are hygroscopic by nature  and easily react with water in preference to epoxy and have high vapor pressure.)

Finish-Cure also uses an above average molecular weight amine, which probably helps explains why blushing has never been a reported problem as long as the epoxy is maintained at a temperature of 75 degrees F or above during the curing process.

So, there you have it. Keep your finishing environment ideal, and use BSI Finish Cure Epoxy, which has "above average molecular weight amine." Bruce
Author:  Ken Jones [ Sat May 28, 2016 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: epoxy and superglue
Bruce, thanks so much for this valuable info. I will definitely be ordering some of each to try out in the repair shop as well as on my new builds. I've been wanting to try ca pore filling for some time, and if it's used on Petros guitars, it's worth giving it a go in my shop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  Woodie G [ Sat May 28, 2016 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: epoxy and superglue
I may have misread Mr. Petros' posts, but I think he's using the 20 Minute epoxy for pore filling and the CA for finish repairs and as a binding/purfling adhesive.

We spent some time down in Annapolis at CLC last week (boss picking up some marine plywood for a non-guitar project), and had a very good discussion on epoxies...those guys really know the market, given all of their boats are held together and waterproofed with epozies. Both MAS low viscocity and the similar West 105 resins are non-blushing under most circumstances...MAS with any of their hardeners when used within the stated temperatures and West when used with 207 hardener at any time. Our only real issue with epoxies for pore filling is the 24 hours apply/cure/sand cycle and compatibility issues between epoxy pore fills, lacquer, and body chemistry.

We already use BSI super glues in the shop...BSI Super Thin can be padded on to polyester or polyurethane and built up to the thickness needed for even large refinish jobs, and seldom leaves a visible witness line with good prep; BSI Medium is a great ding repair glue, and the BSI Super Gold is our go-to adhesive for reattaching Bolteron binding and vinyl purflings on lacquered guitars...very little burn-in on the lacquer, so usually just a light scrape and sand to get rid of any excess and airbrushed lacquer to color-correct and to seal where needed. We have used the BSI Medium as a pore filler on mahogany and Spanish cedar with results similar to epoxy.

GluBoost accelerator is still our preference for pushing cures of thin films of CA on show surfaces, but the BSI accelerator has a naptha base and is safe on any finish we've tried it on.
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Sun May 29, 2016 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: epoxy and superglue
Bruce, one question, does the CA accelerator cause the whitening so many of them do?
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