The pencil sharpener to cut the tapers and a mounted electric hand drill to turn the ball end might be the cheapest way to make bridge pins, but it really sounds like you have a case of TAS and are just looking for us to be enablers.
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| Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end pins http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=47795 |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Thu May 19, 2016 5:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end pins |
So, I am getting interested in making my own bridge pins and end pins. From doing a bit of research here on OLF (love this place), it sounds like a small metal lathe is needed for this task, due to the exacting nature of cutting tapers in the pins. I have been looking into the prices of mini lathes and micro lathes. Some of the really inexpensive Chinese imports look like a waste of money. The nicer ones seem to cost $500 or more. This is discouraging; that voice in the back of my head keeps saying this is too much money to spend on making little pieces of hardwood I can pay someone else to make for me. But, the stubborn part of me (which normally wins) wants to make this happen. I should mention that I don't intend to use this machine for creating any small metal parts. So, while the overall utility of a decent mini lathe may justify buying a good one, I don't see myself taking advantage of that. Anyway, a middle ground machine caught my eye: the Grizzly G0745 - 4" x 6" Micro Metal Lathe. Small, obviously, but certainly big enough for bridge and end pins. Does anyone have any experience with this machine, or any observations about whether it will do the job? How about suggestions for different lathes for this job? Thanks for any input. |
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Thu May 19, 2016 6:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
I bought a used Taig lathe for about $300 for this purpose. Nice thing about the Taig is it has good tolerances and also an optional, adjustable cross slide to cut tapers. A Sherline lathe would be ideal but they are very pricey. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Thu May 19, 2016 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
That's a good deal for a Taig; the used prices I am seeing for those run $500 or more with shipping. I definitely don't want to buy something low quality that won't do the job, but I also don't want to buy a BMW when a Ford will get me there. |
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| Author: | surveyor [ Thu May 19, 2016 7:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
This subject has interested me for some time now and I always wonder how it was done in the days before "mini-lathes" and such. Did they use something like a pencil sharpener? |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Thu May 19, 2016 8:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
You can definitely shave the taper with a peg shaper, and the head can be rounded by hand. But I think it all goes quicker with a lathe. |
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| Author: | StevenWheeler [ Thu May 19, 2016 8:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
surveyor wrote: Did they use something like a pencil sharpener? Very good guess Mike. Google violin peg shaper. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Thu May 19, 2016 8:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
A Boley style jewelers/watchmakers lathe could be used to make small parts like end pins and bridge pins. Sometimes the unbranded ones go for under $100 on eBay. Making a knife that has the profile of the taper and ball end would allow you to duplicate the pins fairly uniformly. |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Thu May 19, 2016 10:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.a ... ,330,50260 |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Fri May 20, 2016 10:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
I have a Taig with the compound attachment. When I bought it about 20 years ago, it was around $400. It gets used all the time (not just for making pins), and I can't see me having anything less. I ground two 1/4" tools for shaping the head of bridgepins. One shapes the upper part of the head, and the other shapes the underneath with the collar. The compound attachment allows you to easily turn the tapered shaft. I turned a 5 degree taper on the inside of the aluminum jaws of the 3-jaw chuck with a boring bar and the compound. The jaws on the chuck are reversible, so I can hold both straight and tapered workpieces. I also have a collet set and I bought a few blank collets to do custom sizes. http://www.taigtools.com/mlathe.html |
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| Author: | kencierp [ Fri May 20, 2016 11:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
Brian England sells a huge assortment on bridge pins made of just about any of the popular materials. For me life's too short and I'd rather buy -- but for the instant I thought about making them here's the DIY lathe that caught my eye. http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Proje ... lathe.html |
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| Author: | Rodger Knox [ Fri May 20, 2016 12:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
If you're intent on doing it yourself, why not do them by hand? I made a couple of my first sets with a pocket knife, then I decided that buying them wasn't really cheating. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Fri May 20, 2016 7:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
The pencil sharpener to cut the tapers and a mounted electric hand drill to turn the ball end might be the cheapest way to make bridge pins, but it really sounds like you have a case of TAS and are just looking for us to be enablers.
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| Author: | Imbler [ Fri May 20, 2016 7:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
Clay S. wrote: The pencil sharpener to cut the tapers and a mounted electric hand drill to turn the ball end might be the cheapest way to make bridge pins, but it really sounds like you have a case of TAS and are just looking for us to be enablers. And I'm proud to be a TAS enabler. If I could afford a quality tool, I have never regretted it. When I couldn't afford one, I found work-arounds, but if I eventually got the tool I enjoy it. There are worse hobbies! This one is only as expensive as our budgets allow it to be, and what better hobby (or business for the pros) than to make musical instruments! Mike |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Fri May 20, 2016 8:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
You see right through me, Clay. |
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| Author: | Burton LeGeyt [ Fri May 20, 2016 9:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
Any newer mini/small lathe is absolutely a step WAY down in overall build quality from the types of bench lathes made from 1900-1950 or so and sold by companies like Hardinge/Cataract, Elgin, Pratt and Whitney, Stark, Ames, Wade, Rivett, Derbyshire, Schaublin etc.... Finding these old lathes is not hard. finding one in immediately useable shape and with collets/drive systems is another story. I use mine everyday, it was built likely around 1935-40 and still holds an amazing level of precision in the headstock. I enjoy collecting and making parts for it but they are not still available new (except for collets). http://www.lathes.co.uk/precisionbenchlatheslist/ Having said all that, I am sure a Taig, Sherline, or any cheap import lathe will make wooden bridge pins. Understanding how to use it correctly as a metal lathe will make that process smoother and quicker though. |
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| Author: | DannyV [ Fri May 20, 2016 11:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
Rod True wrote: http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=43104&cat=1,330,50260 Just what I need Rod. A new hobby. Haha Cheers buddy. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Tue May 24, 2016 3:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
I pulled the trigger on a used Taig, and also separately ordered the slide that allows for cutting tapers. I look forward to their arrival. Thanks for the guidance and input, everyone. I know I earlier said that I don't see myself doing any actual machining with this thing, but I am warming up to the idea. If you have suggestions on modest guitar-related projects that a novice can handle, please feel free to share. |
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| Author: | Chris Ensor [ Tue May 24, 2016 7:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
Burton, Can you tell us where you find bone blanks large enough to make bridge pins/end pins? |
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| Author: | Burton LeGeyt [ Tue May 24, 2016 9:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
Don, Great! Please share some pictures when you get it running. Did you get any cutting tools with the used lathe? Chris, I order from Origindia, either direct or from their ebay store. They have been very nice to work with and the bone is pretty good. When I have needed larger pieces than they can provide I have ordered whole femurs of larger animals and cut the sized pieces I need. As long as the endpin is under 1/2" though, I have been able to source round blanks. |
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| Author: | bobgramann [ Tue May 24, 2016 10:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
Before Michael Gurian said he would make them for me, I cut my pins freehand on a regular lathe. Getting the right taper wasn't too hard when I was matching a model pin sitting in front of me, checking the work with a caliper. Matching the heads was more difficult. It involved making many more pins than needed and sorting them into like sets. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Tue May 24, 2016 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
Burton-- Will do on the pics. There are some standard cutting tools included in what I bought. However, I figure I will need to get creative regarding the head of the pins, and make/buy a form tool. I obviously need to do some studying regarding basic machining practices; I've got a book on that coming, too. By the way, we all should say it more often, but you make some very cool stuff. |
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| Author: | Burton LeGeyt [ Tue May 24, 2016 2:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
Thanks Don, I appreciate that! I think you will find lots to make with the lathe. Soon, you will find that you would also like a larger one...... I had made a very low profile screw recently for a fixture and needed a custom spanner wrench to tighten it. My lathe was up to it! These kinds of little projects are really fun- Attachment: custom wrench.jpg When you have your cutters sharpened correctly the wood will cut beautifully. You do have a bench grinder, yes? Making a form tool for the head can be done with a dremel or similar tool. The rake angles are important for a clean, non binding cut. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Tue May 24, 2016 3:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
I actually don't own a bench grinder right now; I sharpen my woodworking tools without one. But, I can get access to a grinder, if need be, and I do have lots of Dremel doo-dads around. This is extremely helpful! Thanks. And that's a wrench to be proud of. |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Sat May 28, 2016 2:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
Some follow up questions on this fine Memorial Day weekend: 1. I have turned the taper on a test pin using my new (used) Taig without using a live center in the tailstock; just having the blank stick out of the chuck. It was really stable, and I had no trouble getting a nice, smooth taper in my test piece of maple. I have seen a few YouTube videos where folks do it both ways (with or without tailstock support). Any comments on the need for tailstock support? 2. For making a form tool out of a standard 1/4" X 1/4" Taig style blank cutter, I think I might use my little 1" belt sander, one of those cheap benchtop, 3 wheel jobs. Any concerns about that? It is the easiest way for me to get a tight curve in the outline and bevel the tool for the needed rake angle. So far, this experiment is working out pretty well! Thanks again for the help. |
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| Author: | Burton LeGeyt [ Sat May 28, 2016 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Smallest possible tool investment in making bridge/end p |
Hi Don, I don't use that center in the tailstock and have not had any problem. I think it is an unnecessary step here. For the form tool the belt sander can get it started but the more polished you can get the edges the better it will work. I always end with a very thin round grinding stone in the dremel and get the vertical cutting edges as polished as I can. A cutoff wheel in the dremel would work pretty good to form the initial shape and might be better sized than a belt sander. |
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