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Would you use it?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=47750		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Kelby [ Mon May 09, 2016 2:47 am ]
Post subject:  Would you use it?
These are some WRC tops I bought many years ago. I'm getting ready to start a couple new builds, and was planning to use these tops, but the grain is not nearly as vertical as what I have used in the past. At their most vertical, they are about 70 degrees, and that tapers down to 45 degrees at the worst. If I use them, I'll put the seam at the 70 degree side so that I'm using as little of the 45 degree wood as possible (and so that the bridge pressure is at the most vertical grain). But I haven't used something like this before.

Would you use it? These builds will be for me and family members, not for sale.
Author:  Colin North [ Mon May 09, 2016 3:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use it?
They look familiar.... Did you buy them through the OLF?
And no, they're not good wood for a soundboard.
Author:  Tom West [ Mon May 09, 2016 3:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use it?
NO...........!

Too much time and effort goes into building to not have at least reasonable tops.................the main sound producer.
Tom
Author:  wbergman [ Mon May 09, 2016 5:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use it?
Would they be good for laminating backs?
Author:  B. Howard [ Mon May 09, 2016 5:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use it?
Not for
guitars anyway.....
Author:  truckjohn [ Mon May 09, 2016 7:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use it?
I think they would do fine in a smaller body guitar.

That off quarter milling doesn't hurt long grain stiffness but it does effect crossgrain stiffness. Use them on small body builds <14" across the lower bout and don't look back.

Thanks
Author:  kencierp [ Mon May 09, 2016 8:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use it?
For a camp fire/student guitar sure --- For a full out real deal project, no way -- premium Red Cedar readily available for very little $$
Author:  meddlingfool [ Mon May 09, 2016 8:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use it?
Definitely! Under a slab of salmon on the BBQ. But not for a guitar. Although I'm led to believe flat sawn is better, so you may have problems with that too.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Mon May 09, 2016 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use it?
I think for yourself or campfire easy build guitars it's ok. I would not personally use it but I will say that I have used tops that most luthiers would discard as junk that turned out to be really good sounding guitars. But WRC is cheap in good quality so I would not use it. It would be fine for an inside layer of a laminated double top guitar though.
Author:  Kelby [ Mon May 09, 2016 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use it?
Colin North wrote:
They look familiar.... Did you buy them through the OLF?
And no, they're not good wood for a soundboard.


Yes, these were through the OLF. I remember a few people having concerns about the off-quarter grain, but I couldn't remember what everyone decided. (There was a thread discussing it, but the thread got deleted.) Sounds like these are bound for the fireplace.

Thanks to everyone who responded. The answer is what I expected.

Unfortunately, while I have gotten some great deals from OLF sales, I've also been bitten by a few. (Not blaming the OLF, obviously.) In every case, it was a function of wood not being properly processed. My losses on the sales have probably outpaced my gains. I'll probably stick with the large suppliers from now on.

Thanks again.
Author:  DennisK [ Mon May 09, 2016 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use it?
I'd be happy to dispose of them for you :) I agree with John that they'll probably work well for small guitars. Especially classicals that are small enough to skip the fan braces and leave the soundboard a little thicker to make up the stiffness. The natural long grain to cross grain stiffness ratio ought to be similar to a quartersawn top with fan braces.

I wouldn't expect them to work as well as quartersawn if you build traditional designs that were developed using quartersawn wood, but I'm also not convinced that riftsawn wood has lower potential for good tone after you get a feel for it.
Author:  kencierp [ Mon May 09, 2016 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use it?
A problem with lesser grade wood can be run-out as well -- seems I 've read that especially with WRC if run-out is a condition the bridge can more easily peel away from the sound board.
Author:  Clay S. [ Mon May 09, 2016 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use it?
The desirability of vertical grain is to maximize the stiffness to weight potential of the wood. If the wood is stiff enough and otherwise good (reasonable run out, split resistance, etc.) it could work fine. It may not be as good as it could have been, but it may be good enough.
Those tops could also work for harp soundboards - not everything prefers vertical grain. Many folk instruments have less than stellar wood, so set it aside until you find the perfect project for it.
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Mon May 09, 2016 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use it?
If it was for me I'd have no problem building with these provided there's no wild grain or defects. If it was a spec instrument there'd be no way I'd build with it but only because today's market won't accept anything other than vertical grain in tops.

In the end it's an engineering material and as long as it's consistent along, across, and through the grain you should treat it as such. So far off quarter these probably have very little cross grain stiffness, but that's not necessarily a problem depending on what you're looking for, and in fact could be a strength when you consider how brittle and willing to split down grain lines red cedar is. Stability is less than vertical grain but as a practical matter probably not a concern. The long grain stiffness is likely just fine and comparable to a VG top.
Author:  Colin North [ Tue May 10, 2016 2:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use it?
Kelby wrote:
Colin North wrote:
They look familiar.... Did you buy them through the OLF?
And no, they're not good wood for a soundboard.


Yes, these were through the OLF. I remember a few people having concerns about the off-quarter grain, but I couldn't remember what everyone decided. (There was a thread discussing it, but the thread got deleted.) Sounds like these are bound for the fireplace.

Thanks to everyone who responded. The answer is what I expected.

Unfortunately, while I have gotten some great deals from OLF sales, I've also been bitten by a few. (Not blaming the OLF, obviously.) In every case, it was a function of wood not being properly processed. My losses on the sales have probably outpaced my gains. I'll probably stick with the large suppliers from now on.

Thanks again.

I remember - Chocolate WRC, "AAA/Master", consecutively cut, sets of 3 IIRC.
Yes, still have mine, you can bend them into a tube....
Saving them for strumsticks.
Author:  bluescreek [ Tue May 10, 2016 7:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use it?
I would not use them on a guitar.
Author:  truckjohn [ Tue May 10, 2016 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use it?
Vertical grain is to maximize cross grain stiffness... It really has no effect on long grain stiffness.

One thing I could see with some off-quarter cut as shown is that it may increase the crack resistance a little.

I have seen a whole lot of cedar cut that way - though not as much recently. To me it should never have been classified AAA - it would more likely fall into an honest A or B grade. It will make fine sounding guitars assuming it's not suffering from crushed internal grain structure.

I would split off a 1" section along the grain off one side and flex it between your hands until it breaks. Does it just crack in half or does it tend to rupture and split with long fibers breaking loose. If it just goes "poink" and snaps in half - reject into the fire with clear conscience. If it more ruptures with long grain splinters separating far up the piece - don't reject it. It's good stuff. Just make some small body guitars out of it for the kids or whatever.

Thanks
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