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Do I really need my jointer
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=47735		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  SteveSmith [ Wed May 04, 2016 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Do I really need my jointer
I'm remodeling my shop. Since it is not real large I'm trying to decide what is going out the door. My Grizzly 6" jointer has been a good tool for over 15 yrs but I almost never use it. Occasionally I square up a neck blank or something I cut out of a log. I figure with a bit of effort I should be able to do the same task on the band saw.

Right now I'm 90% in favor of getting rid of the jointer but I've got this TAS thing real bad and I have a hard time getting rid of tools. So, am I nuts or do I dump the jointer? Or, should I dump the jointer in spite of the fact that I'm nuts laughing6-hehe
Author:  Pat Foster [ Wed May 04, 2016 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
Steve,

Don't worry. You can dump it and still be nuts.

I've never had one in my shop, and get by fine.

Pat
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Wed May 04, 2016 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
I have a 4" joiner but rarely use it. I should give it up also I'm thinking
Author:  Hesh [ Wed May 04, 2016 2:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
Dump the sucker, I've never owned one and that never stopped me from building....:)

As for being nuts what's wrong with being nuts? :)
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Wed May 04, 2016 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
If you really never use it and space is an issue it is probably right to get rid of it. But the next time something comes up that you need a jointer for. . . That will drive you nuts. Oh wait, too late. :)

I've never had one, sometimes I wonder if I would find uses for one if I had. It is nice to see you guys say you don't use yours. One fewer tool to covet.
Author:  jshelton [ Wed May 04, 2016 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
SteveSmith wrote:
I'm remodeling my shop. Since it is not real large I'm trying to decide what is going out the door. My Grizzly 6" jointer has been a good tool for over 15 yrs but I almost never use it. Occasionally I square up a neck blank or something I cut out of a log. I figure with a bit of effort I should be able to do the same task on the band saw.

I would never give up my jointer. I use it all the time. Do yourself a favor and have the beds and fence surface ground in a machine shop. Once this is done and the knives are set accurately it is an invaluable tool and in my opinion essential tool for any woodworking shop.
Author:  Michaeldc [ Wed May 04, 2016 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
jshelton wrote:
SteveSmith wrote:
I'm remodeling my shop. Since it is not real large I'm trying to decide what is going out the door. My Grizzly 6" jointer has been a good tool for over 15 yrs but I almost never use it. Occasionally I square up a neck blank or something I cut out of a log. I figure with a bit of effort I should be able to do the same task on the band saw.

I would never give up my jointer. I use it all the time. Do yourself a favor and have the beds and fence surface ground in a machine shop. Once this is done and the knives are set accurately it is an invaluable tool and in my opinion essential tool for any woodworking shop.


I'm with John, I use mine daily. If it's properly setup, it's a real time saver. But....get rid of it if it's taking up space.
Author:  Colin North [ Wed May 04, 2016 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
I've got a small (6" x 30") jointer, and its mounted on the to of a small set of drawers, and takes up little space.
Handy for quickly squaring up neck blanks, etc, and levelling the back of fingerboards, rough edging plates, etc
It's all I need, but I wouldn't give a big jointer shop space personally.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Wed May 04, 2016 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
What's a jointer?

:p
Author:  dofthesea [ Wed May 04, 2016 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
I plan on getting a jointer. For my process I will end up using one a lot.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Wed May 04, 2016 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
Thanks everyone for the comments. In spite of the pro-jointer group I'm going to dump the sucker along with the little planer I haven't used in 10 yrs. I need the space more than I need the jointer.

Anyone in the East TN area looking for some tools? laughing6-hehe
Author:  Clay S. [ Wed May 04, 2016 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
I use a jointer for a lot of things. Jointing front and back plates, tapering sides and backs of neck blanks (even those that have a volute), shaping and thicknessing pegheads, rough tapering bent guitar sides, smoothing the face of the board when resawing with the tablesaw/ bandsaw, and many other guitar related tasks.
A properly set up jointer can do many things besides just flatten lumber. It can also be used to square up lumber and cut tapers and bevels. Before chucking your jointer you should read a book and see all the things you can do with it. I think the 6 inch jointers are about the perfect size for guitar work, and can be placed against a wall or even slid under a work bench if on a mobile base.
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Wed May 04, 2016 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
I plan on getting rid of my 6" jointer....and then I'll get an 8" jointer. They can be useful for guitar building, but indispensable for cabinetry.

Alex
Author:  SteveSmith [ Wed May 04, 2016 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
Clay, I'm not saying it's not a useful tool but I think I can do what I need to do without one fairly easily. I'm keeping the bandsaw, thickness sander, belt sander, and my planes which are what I use for several of the tasks you noted.

Alex, if I were still building furniture and cabinets there is no way I'd let my jointer go. Back when I was doing that kind of work I really wanted an 8" jointer too [:Y:]
Author:  Clinchriver [ Wed May 04, 2016 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
SteveSmith wrote:
Thanks everyone for the comments. In spite of the pro-jointer group I'm going to dump the sucker along with the little planer I haven't used in 10 yrs. I need the space more than I need the jointer.

Anyone in the East TN area looking for some tools? laughing6-hehe



Well you know where I live if you really need one :mrgreen: I use my 8" Powermatic quite a bit.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Wed May 04, 2016 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
Clinchriver wrote:
SteveSmith wrote:
Thanks everyone for the comments. In spite of the pro-jointer group I'm going to dump the sucker along with the little planer I haven't used in 10 yrs. I need the space more than I need the jointer.

Anyone in the East TN area looking for some tools? laughing6-hehe



Well you know where I live if you really need one :mrgreen: I use my 8" Powermatic quite a bit.


Thanks! I'll be headed up that way if I need one.
Author:  kencierp [ Wed May 04, 2016 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
I did not construct a really good neck from scratch until I purchased a jointer -- bless those that have the time and skill to do so with hand tools -- not for me. In my opinion there are so many processes for both solid billets and laminated its an essential tool.

Hesh I remember long ago when your friend Herb David was showing me his shop and he stop at the 10" Inca jointer -- man he loved that machine, he went on and on, had me convinced, when I left I "needed" one -- but I did not have the bucks at the time.
Author:  Clay S. [ Wed May 04, 2016 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
Hi Steve,
I was posting as you were posting that you had made up your mind. If that was what you decided I'm not inclined to convince you otherwise. The jointer, like the tablesaw can be dispensed with for guitar making, as can many other tools (band saw, thickness sander, and belt sander). There is more than one way to do any task, and as Todd Stock said "Everyone gets to waste time in their own unique way". There are times I use a hand plane even though running it through the planer would be quicker. Speed of construction is secondary because I build for my own enjoyment. But sometimes I run it through the planer - again - because I build for my own enjoyment.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Wed May 04, 2016 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
Ken and Clay - Your arguments are quite valid and I certainly don't dispute that the jointer could be valuable depending on how one has their process set up. I am not trying to build quickly nor does my build process require the jointer to any significant degree. Different strokes and it's all good. I do appreciate the comments.
Author:  Doug Balzer [ Wed May 04, 2016 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
I rarely use mine but every time I do I'm grateful I kept it.
Author:  Andy Birko [ Wed May 04, 2016 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
jfmckenna wrote:
What's a jointer?

:p


Image

Actually, I have a number eight which is one better than what's in the link.
Author:  Bri [ Wed May 04, 2016 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
Mine is used pretty much any day I'm in the shop. Actually I have 2. How else do you quickly straighten
stock. Notice I said quickly. Sure I can staighten a board with the #7 but thats not always practical.
If you are resawing,would you not joint one face first?
I know there are other methods for plate joining, but once the machine is properly set up, this is a 30 second operation.
I always take a light pass on the neck prior to gluing the fingerboard.
If you pay attention your drum sander can be used to flatten but can be time consuming.
Doing millwork I could not operate without it.
Alex, don't mess around with the 8", go 16". Unbelievably useful.
With tersa heads full knife change in 2-3 minutes
http://www.scmgroupna.com/website/var/t ... ic@2x.jpeg
Author:  Hesh [ Wed May 04, 2016 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
kencierp wrote:

Hesh I remember long ago when your friend Herb David was showing me his shop and he stop at the 10" Inca jointer -- man he loved that machine, he went on and on, had me convinced, when I left I "needed" one -- but I did not have the bucks at the time.


Hey Ken! We just let Herb us our shop to be interviewed for a movie that is being shot about him and other great Michiganders including recently retired representative Dingle, the former longest serving member of the US congress. The movie will be shown at the Michigan theater when complete.

Anyway Herb was a dealer for Inca and brought them into Michigan. He had a vested interest in pushing the stuff and back in the day Inca did some things very well and some things not so well. When we took over the shop we also bought most of Herb's Inca tools that were still there and either gave them away or are still tripping over the things. The band saw a three wheel set-up sucked big time and we gave it away to someone who wanted it and even had it delivered to them so that it was a turn-key gift. We kept the table saw in so much as these had a loyal following with model makers and did not take up too much space.

Herb's jointer was the first tool to go even when Herb was still active in the business and lived in the bowels of the basement for a couple of years.

Hesh here had Herb both laughing and offended when I added some letters as I am known to do especially to vacuums.... to his Inca band saw. Herb looked at it one day and it said "Stinka...." which made Herb laugh until he decided to be pissed at me for 10 minutes...:)

Back to the OP's original question. Great guitars can be built without a jointer or even a table saw and are every single day too. Many of you here are wood workers looking to expand your range into Lutherie. This explains much of the divide over if a jointer is desirable or not.

We see small builder instruments weekly and have noticed that the folks who approach Lutherie as wanting to make tools for musicians produce much more playable instruments then the folks who approach Lutherie as another way to find a use for that stinkin jointer taking up valuable real estate in a crowded shop and looking for a justification for purchasing the thing in the first place.

Me... I'm not opinionated.....:)

So what's the right answer? The right answer is what's right for each and every one of you folks and that will most certainly vary. Some of you will want the biggest, baddest jointer on the planet. Others prefer a decent, vintage hand plane which by the way is my preference.

Anyway above all let's remember Rick Turner's advice to the forum 10 years ago about making GLOs (guitar shaped objects...). Rick was keen to point out as only Rick could back then...:) that some here seem content to produce "guitar like objects" forgetting that a jointer or this or that does not a guitar make but instead a Luthier intent on producing tools for musicians is who ultimately produces the best guitars.

If you can tell me how a jointer will contribute as only a jointer can contribute.... to quality fret work, a killer set-up, a complete understanding of neck geometry and a keen sense of playability and the skill set to make it happen and I might be a convert. Sure a jointer is useful that was never the question but is it required to produce a killer musical instrument - heck no.

It's interesting to watch some of the guys that we get to know here. As their interest in guitars expands from simply producing a guitar or three once in a while to working on guitars, perhaps doing some restoration and repair work some of the TAS morphs into what's used in the real world of Lutherie and what's not being more the consideration.

No offense intended but when I read some of the replies here I want to say to folks this is not a wood working forum but a Lutherie forum and there are differences. OTOH what's the harm in celebrating all manner of ways to waste time, money and space? :)

You know Steve you could use the jointer as a place for the Fox bender to live...:)
Author:  Pmaj7 [ Wed May 04, 2016 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
I recently got one of those small portable 6-inch jointers. I use it mostly for resawing, but is quite useful when dealing with other rough lumber. I'm sure it will be a boon when I start making vertically laminated necks.
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Wed May 04, 2016 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Do I really need my jointer
Bri wrote:
Mine is used pretty much any day I'm in the shop. Actually I have 2. How else do you quickly straighten
stock. Notice I said quickly. Sure I can staighten a board with the #7 but thats not always practical.
If you are resawing,would you not joint one face first?
I know there are other methods for plate joining, but once the machine is properly set up, this is a 30 second operation.
I always take a light pass on the neck prior to gluing the fingerboard.
If you pay attention your drum sander can be used to flatten but can be time consuming.
Doing millwork I could not operate without it.
Alex, don't mess around with the 8", go 16". Unbelievably useful.
With tersa heads full knife change in 2-3 minutes
http://www.scmgroupna.com/website/var/t ... ic@2x.jpeg


That would be nice, Brian, but I have a pretty small shop, and a good piece of real estate is taken up by a 14" General table saw. If I could get rid of the furnace and water heater, I could swing it!

Alex
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