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Neck block lines
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=47487		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  cablepuller1 [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Neck block lines
Hi

Just shaping up the heel and the joint lines are really visable.. didn't have lines on the last neck I made

Wasn't going to stain the neck but might have to to try and hide them

Anyone have any ideas why there showing so much ?

Thanks

Image
Author:  Tom West [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck block lines
Are you very careful to get good fits.......?? Thick glue lines will show.
Tom
Author:  kencierp [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck block lines
I personally don't find that objectionable, common grain matching or rather mis-matching -- I've seen some rather pricey stacked heel classical's where there was not effort at all to conceal the stack lines -- no stain, no nothing.
Author:  J De Rocher [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck block lines
Have you tried wiping the heel with naptha or alcohol to get and idea what it will look like under a finish?
Author:  cablepuller1 [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck block lines
J De Rocher wrote:
Have you tried wiping the heel with naptha or alcohol to get and idea what it will look like under a finish?

No haven't tried that sounds like a good plan.. are lines acceptable do you think
Author:  cablepuller1 [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck block lines
kencierp wrote:
I personally don't find that objectionable, common grain matching or rather mis-matching -- I've seen some rather pricey stacked heel classical's where there was not effort at all to conceal the stack lines -- no stain, no nothing.

That's good to hear ..might be ok to not stain .. I like the neck unstained if I can
Author:  Ben-Had [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck block lines
When you stacked them are you sure you kept the grain all going in the same direction? It looks to me like they may have been flipped around i.e. when you cut the pieces off the end of the blank the first piece is the top piece, next piece back is the middle of the stack and the last piece is the bottom all kept in line.
Author:  cablepuller1 [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck block lines
Ben-Had wrote:
When you stacked them are you sure you kept the grain all going in the same direction? It looks to me like they may have been flipped around i.e. when you cut the pieces off the end of the blank the first piece is the top piece, next piece back is the middle of the stack and the last piece is the bottom all kept in line.

Yes it's possible that's what happened Ben. . Never mind. . Would you stain to try and hide or have as a feature :/
Author:  Rod True [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck block lines
Who's the guitar for? I keep seeming to ask this question. If you're in the early learning stages, move along and note for next time. If it's a deal breaker for the guitar then redo it.

Personally, I don't like stacked heels however sometimes they are necessary.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck block lines
How are you preparing those joints? Jointer, plane or sanded joint?
Author:  cablepuller1 [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck block lines
Rod True wrote:
Who's the guitar for? I keep seeming to ask this question. If you're in the early learning stages, move along and note for next time. If it's a deal breaker for the guitar then redo it.

Personally, I don't like stacked heels however sometimes they are necessary.

Hi Rod .. going to sell it if I can.. am still learning but trying to sell each one as I go to fund the next one with a bit of profit to improve my tools etc :)
Author:  cablepuller1 [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck block lines
Barry Daniels wrote:
How are you preparing those joints? Jointer, plane or sanded joint?

Sanded joint Barry.. I use an electric belt sander upside down in a vice to give me a flat sanding surface... not perfect but give a good flat surface as use different grade belts
Author:  J De Rocher [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck block lines
cablepuller1 wrote:
J De Rocher wrote:
Have you tried wiping the heel with naptha or alcohol to get and idea what it will look like under a finish?

No haven't tried that sounds like a good plan.. are lines acceptable do you think


It's not terribly unusual to be able to see the blocks in a stacked heel. If you do a Google image search for "classical guitar heel" you can see a number of examples from both big guitar companies and small shop builders where the blocks are apparent. Sometimes because of lines at the joints, other times because of different grain orientations. Some builders make the blocks a feature.

I wonder if they might be glue lines as Tom suggested. I would do the wipe down with naptha or alcohol first before worrying about staining. Those lines might blend in more under finish. How finely sanded is the heel in your photos?
Author:  cablepuller1 [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck block lines
J De Rocher wrote:
cablepuller1 wrote:
J De Rocher wrote:
Have you tried wiping the heel with naptha or alcohol to get and idea what it will look like under a finish?

No haven't tried that sounds like a good plan.. are lines acceptable do you think


It's not terribly unusual to be able to see the blocks in a stacked heel. If you do a Google image search for "classical guitar heel" you can see a number of examples from both big guitar companies and small shop builders where the blocks are apparent. Sometimes because of lines at the joints, other times because of different grain orientations. Some builders make the blocks a feature.

I wonder if they might be glue lines as Tom suggested. I would do the wipe down with naptha or alcohol first before worrying about staining. Those lines might blend in more under finish. How finely sanded is the heel in your photos?

Will have a look at that on Google now thanks.. the heel has been shaped with rasp the had a quick sand over with 120 to try and remove rasp marks
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck block lines
cablepuller1 wrote:
Barry Daniels wrote:
How are you preparing those joints? Jointer, plane or sanded joint?

Sanded joint Barry.. I use an electric belt sander upside down in a vice to give me a flat sanding surface... not perfect but give a good flat surface as use different grade belts


If you have a good flat surface, like a cast iron table saw top, or jointer, you can lay down some 3M Stikit sandpaper, and get a pretty flat surface in no time. I leave a couple of strips on my table saw extension for touch ups, and slide the fence over it to get a 90*.

Alex
Author:  cablepuller1 [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck block lines
Alex Kleon wrote:
cablepuller1 wrote:
Barry Daniels wrote:
How are you preparing those joints? Jointer, plane or sanded joint?

Sanded joint Barry.. I use an electric belt sander upside down in a vice to give me a flat sanding surface... not perfect but give a good flat surface as use different grade belts


If you have a good flat surface, like a cast iron table saw top, or jointer, you can lay down some 3M Stikit sandpaper, and get a pretty flat surface in no time. I leave a couple of strips on my table saw extension for touch ups, and slide the fence over it to get a 90*.

Alex

Good advice thanks Alex
Author:  Pmaj7 [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck block lines
cablepuller1 wrote:
I use an electric belt sander upside down in a vice to give me a flat sanding surface... not perfect but give a good flat surface as use different grade belts


I doubt you are getting a flat surface that way. You need to finish them on a known flat surface. My small granite surface plate was cheap and I use it ALL the time for this type of thing.

So far I have mostly used stacked heels and I always reverse the grain. I think it looks more intentional.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck block lines
Sanding like that will never give a great joint like Pat said. A sharp plane is the preferred way.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck block lines
What kind of glue did you use?

A plane is always best for gluing surfaces imho. Belt sanders almost always are too hard to control perfectly, at least for me anyway.

I would think that, if anything, stain will only accentuate the lines.
Author:  Imbler [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck block lines
I also think the grain direction got reversed, but at least it is consistent in alternating. In my opinion the stack would show glue line or not. It wouldn't bother me, as I see that in many classicals - it is just how they are built. That being said, I used a heel block on my last classical, and I like the look - only one glue joint, and the cost isn't much extra,
Mike
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