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| Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=47236 |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
So.... I picked up 2 older small body guitars for next to nothing. I will get pix up - but I think these will make a fun project. One is a Taiwan made Stella by Harmony. Likely made in the 70's.... As such value is nearly zero. Needs a neck reset, bridge, fretwork, and the back put back on. It features all plywood construction and a non-adjustable reinforced neck. I am seriously thinking about converting this one to a mahogany top with pre-war Stella ladder bracing, and adding an adjustable truss rod. The next is a B&J Serenader. This is an American made post-war guitar. Typical cheap catalog features. Looks to be solid birch. At a minimum, it needs a neck reset, bridge, and some fretwork. If I can figure out how to do it clean - I would like to add an adjustable trussrod. Anyway - I think these will be fun projects if for nothing else than to bring these old guitars back to life as something useful. Opinions. |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
Hey John: What will be key here is the neck joints. Hopefully there will be dovetails so they can be serviced with no unnatural acts... If not I find that they are great for target practice in my back yard and Dave likes to build bon fires with them and watch the colors....  Disclaimer: We repair donated "serviceable" instruments and donate them to homeless folks so if anyone gets their panties in a bunch over my sense of humor above tell it to someone who is interested in hearing it, not me....
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| Author: | printer2 [ Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
Got one that looks almost new, 1944 new. Sounds terrible. Bought another that has the top separating from the sides, depression by the soundhole. Cool looking Hawaiian stencil on it though. Project guitars for the future. |
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| Author: | Freeman [ Mon Feb 08, 2016 7:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
Interesting timing - a customer brought an old parlor to me to have the bridge reglued. When I removed it I noticed that it was not the original - the finish had been removed with a curve at the ends, the replacement bridge was a pyramid. I reglued the bridge and returned it to him noting that it needed a reset and fret work and the relief was pretty severe. I told him what the industry rates were figuring that would scare him away. I also told him that my rates are a lot less because I'm still learning how to do these things and don't have a fancy shingle on my door. He said OK so I get to reset and refret a 1930 Washburn parlor - cute little thing here with one of my recent builds 
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| Author: | Hesh [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 7:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
Freeman wrote: Interesting timing - a customer brought an old parlor to me to have the bridge reglued. When I removed it I noticed that it was not the original - the finish had been removed with a curve at the ends, the replacement bridge was a pyramid. I reglued the bridge and returned it to him noting that it needed a reset and fret work and the relief was pretty severe. I told him what the industry rates were figuring that would scare him away. I also told him that my rates are a lot less because I'm still learning how to do these things and don't have a fancy shingle on my door. He said OK so I get to reset and refret a 1930 Washburn parlor - cute little thing here with one of my recent builds Good going Freeman and they both look great! Washburns as you already know had dovetails so they can be reset conventionally. FYI in the biz the term for trying to scare someone away that you don't want to do the work or don't like the person for one reason or another is "punitive quote..." It's done all of the time. "Sorry about this but that will cost $1,750 plus parts and right now it looks like we can have it back to you before men live on Mars..." "Oh yeah.... strings are additional..."
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
Pix.... Both of these have dovetail neck joints of one fashion or another.... Both are basket cases.... I have to say I am honestly torn on what to do... One side of me says just fix them up and let them be what they are.... The other side of me says that they are worth nothing - and being what they are is how they ended up where they are at now - go ahead and do whatever you want to them.... I am variously thinking of retopping, adding trussrods, converting to bolt-on necks, adding proper linings to the Harmony... Basically making them into instruments I would want to play and/or give to my kids as "Real" instruments rather than turning them back into functional/playable bottom of the barrel guitars........ Here's the Taiwan Stella I particularly like the painted "Binding".... Also - (not shown in the pix) the "Linings" look like simply a strip of veneer running along the inside... That's as cheap as it gets, and I can't imagine it does anything to increase the glue line.... No wonder the back is coming loose on one entire side.... The fretboard dots are some sort of plastic button things....    and here's the weird B&J Serenader... Upon further inspection - I believe this is plywood rather than solid birch... Looks like a USA made instrument, though.... That probably puts it in the late 60's... The thing has brass frets rather than nickel silver... Once again - a bottom of the barrel instrument when it was made.... There is very little wear on the fretboard - it's probably been unplayable for a long time...  
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| Author: | Barry Daniels [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
If you are going to re-top them, might as well go ahead and replace the back and sides too. (where is the sarcasm emoticon?) |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
The necks came off without any real stress... No steam or heat required.... Just pop the fretboard loose from the top and give a little push.... Where I am at now... I am really thinking both of these need to be converted to bolt-on necks... The B&J is a real mess in the neck department... Looks like the neck set was out of whack from day one... Probably why there is no wear on the frets of this 50+ year old instrument.... The dovetail doesn't have enough angle on it to take a neck set properly.... The flare of the dovetail is almost nonexistent at maybe an 85 degree angle...   Not shown - the neck of the B&J is slightly twisted... Looks like this one is going to get it's fretboard pulled, neck squared away, and a trussrod installed... The Taiwan Stella required slightly more persuasion but finally succumbed to the power of kitchen table lutherie......  I also found that both the top and back of the Taiwan guitar are separating because the veneer linings weren't glued to anything..... That one is definitely getting retopped... The "trussrod" on this one is a joke - looks like it's maybe 1mm thick and 1/4" deep.... so it's getting an adjustable trussrod as well....   Thoughts? |
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| Author: | jack [ Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
converting to bolt on is probably a good idea, but would also provide a chance to reset a dovetail joint, but not be practicing on something expensive..I have redone a few old late 50's early 60's Stella's and the results can be rewarding.. |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
Looking through pix and such.... The B&J is a rebranded Kay 5160. That was their "auditorium" sized cheapo guitar. All laminate construction with a tailpiece. Introduced in 1959. The Asian Stella is a model h6132.... Came out somewhere about 1977. I wanted to be sure I knew what I had before I started hacking away. You know - just to make sure it wasn't something collectible and desirable like a pre-war model. Thanks |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
A friend of mine loves and owns a few stellas. I never saw the point, until at a party we had, somebody was playing it, and I was at a further distance from it than usual, I was blown away at how great, and different it sounded. So, those weird funky instruments have a place. For recording too, when ya want somethang funkay! |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
The major issue I saw all the way around was playability rather than sound. The fact that the neck sets were so bad made it impossible to bring the action into a reasonable range - even if they had an adjustable trussrod and decent fretwork. Compared to the cheap instruments of today - the build quality was a lot worse but the sound was quite unique and could be a lot of fun. The cheap instruments today can generally be made quite playable without a lot of trouble. They also show decent build quality - they just look and sound exactly alike.... 10-million identical quiet, boxy, boring and uninspiring cookie cutter dreads with the same construction, scale length, neck, nut, and everything else. Thanks |
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| Author: | David Newton [ Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
I do repairs on them fairly regular, charge the same as for expensive guitars, but not often on my own account, there usually isn't enough meat left on the bone. I was the only bidder on a mid-century all Mahogany Kay that I did a major "resto-mod". I sold it to Retro-frets in NY, and it ended up with "The tallest man on earth" ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHdVtUsTtPg |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
A little weirdness. The Stella has a 23" scale length. That's weird because all the literature says the scale on Stella's is in the 24" range. Makes me wonder if this was a "different" model they marketed as a kids guitar. The normal literature doesn't say anything about this sort of thing - but the ruler doesn't lie. Anyway - the new sitka top and African mahogany back are ready for bracing up during the next cold spell (to avoid concave tops). I will get some pix up tonight. Need to get more lining on order - as the lining inside the guitar was veneer thin and not glued to the top at all. Luckily, the glue in this thing is like dried out peanut butter. The lining veneer is peeling right out easily. Now... Before you freak out about using up "real wood" on a little junk guitar like this. The top was a $10 #3/B grade top I bought for jointing practice about 5 years ago and the back was unusable for anything bigger than this because of some mistakes I made resawing it out of lumber. I have about $20 in the top and back. The brace wood is from a spruce 2x4 that I split out and sawed. Thanks |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
So... Here's a shot of the Stella's original bracing... Note that this is not "Standard" old fashioned Stella bracing - that bracing would have the one lower bout brace below the bridge rather than above it...  Here's the veneer linings... They don't touch the top or back about 40% of the time..... The glue is weird stuff... I think the white foamy looking stuff may actually be rice glue... It's hard/brittle and has the holding power of peanut butter... The thick translucent globby stuff may well be hot glue... They sure didn't skimp on it either...  Here's the candidate top and back...  This should be a fun little guitar... I can't say I have ever played a guitar with a 23" scale length... but I hear it's actually pretty common on a lot of electric guitars... Thanks |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
Barry Daniels wrote: If you are going to re-top them, might as well go ahead and replace the back and sides too. (where is the sarcasm emoticon?)  Yeah... Crazy idea... I know.... Who would ever do that.... A Teaser.....  
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
Top and back bracing  
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| Author: | Lonnie J Barber [ Sat Mar 12, 2016 7:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
I've reset the neck on a few old Harmonies. They're just very sloppily made mortise and tenon. Add some wood to the joint tighten it up. You'll find a little wood and glue and your action problems are fixed. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
Here are the new rims. I still have to level them to the top and back profile and install the linings.  These are African Mahogany that match the back. The stuff is a spectacular brown color... I resawed this out of lumber several years ago. I couldn't get this particular stuff to bend worth a lick before... So - off to the side it went.. It was in the stack for scrap/burning... I thought it was some of the mahogany you come across sometimes that just won't bend at all. Kinda like the back and top - this was stuff that literally had nothing to loose by doing this project... If I could get them to bend - great, if not - I was going to figure out how to make the existing plywood sides work.... After some more research - I soaked it really sopping wet... and bent it fast.. It bent without issue. The tail block is plywood. Head block is cherry. It's slotted and holes drilled for the bolt on neck. Thanks |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
David Newton wrote: I was the only bidder on a mid-century all Mahogany Kay that I did a major "resto-mod". Cool Dave. You must have done a great job on it!I sold it to Retro-frets in NY, and it ended up with "The tallest man on earth" ! Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
What do you guys think of the top bracing? I based it on pictures I found of a pre-1930 Stella. |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
Wow... No comments on the bracing? You guys are tough... Anyway - the sides are ready for the top and back to be glued on... Progress is moving along pretty nicely... though as you guys well know - it will bog down when I get to the finishing part....  Thanks |
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| Author: | Greg B [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
Looks good to me!  Pretty funny that you actually did make new sides too. That is dedication. I'd probably add another UTB or other reinforcement to the upper bout, since you lost the L-bracket think from the original headblock. Ladder braced guitars seem to be susceptible to necks diving into soundholes, IME at least. |
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| Author: | Glenn LaSalle [ Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
I have several old Ladder Braced Grand Concert Guitars (Both Oscar Schmidt and ones built by "the 5 Italian Luthiers in NYC"). One thing I noticed with all the guitars, the top braces are triangular shaped. One of my Grand Concerts, the Joseph Neptune (1925) has one side of the brace shaved , so instead of triangular peaking in the middle, it peaked to the backside of the brace. Anyway, my point is none have straight braces. Thanks! Glenn |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Renovating funky cheap "parlor" guitars |
Glenn. What were the dimensions of those braces. Similar to mine except triangular? Thanks |
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