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| Author: | roby [ Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Liberon finishing oil |
Hello i'd be very interested in hearing from anyone who uses this, i know Kevin Aram uses it on his classical guitars and read somewhere that he sands to a high grade before application and uses it straight from the can,so if there are any users: How high a grade do you sand to? How many coats, and do you level sand/buff? I'd be very grateful for any information as this seems a viable alternative to spraying.All the best Roby |
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| Author: | Derek [ Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Liberon finishing oil |
Robin, I have used it quite a lot for necks and have treated it much like tru oil. Sand to p600 or higher and wipe it on, leave for a few minutes and wipe off the excess. Repeat a few times a day for 3 days or so, leave for another few days then buff. I have read some posts on tru oil where some sand a lot higher than 600. I have used it and polyx oil on a few early guitar bodies which look a bit ropey after a few years but I really like it for necks |
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| Author: | roby [ Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Liberon finishing oil |
Thanks Derek did you sand between coats? |
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| Author: | Trevor Gore [ Fri Feb 05, 2016 7:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Liberon finishing oil |
When I was writing the book I had the opportunity to inspect and measure a number of classical guitars, most by famous Spanish builders who finished by French Polishing and one (not Spanish) that was almost certainly finished with Liberon finishing oil. The Spanish guitars were from the 60's and 70's and the polishing was of various qualities, some impeccable, most with shrink-back into the grain and some where I could see white flecks of some type of filler (probably originally rosewood coloured, but faded over the years) in the grain. They all looked a heap better than the oiled guitar, which, in comparison, looked like it had been dipped in old sump oil in the back of someone's garage. That sort of put me off oil finishes. Now, it is, of course, possible to achieve a good oil finish, but when I hear of the process required to do this, it makes French Polishing look quick and easy. Pics below are of a one day French Polish, done on a long, hot, dry summer's day in Sydney. Probably not possible in the UK, where you might have to split the sessions over more days. I can't remember the details of the number of sessions etc., but no grain fill, likely three times round (about a 10 minute session) about every hour for probably 6 or 7 hours, so max about 2 hours total finishing time on the body. Hard shellac, azeotropic acetone/alcohol mix. (Neck was NC lacquer). Attachment: DSCF7235s.jpg Attachment: DSCF7242s.jpg Here's another one, with a bit more time in it, but no grain fill and a similar process: Attachment: DSCF7859s.jpg So, for a viable alternative to spraying, here's one. |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Liberon finishing oil |
Trevor Gore wrote: Here's another one, with a bit more time in it, but no grain fill and a similar process: You sure about that no grain fill part? I can't see any open pores or texture at all in that little spot of reflection on the side. I thought you were using French polish over top of z-poxy, which is what that looks like, with the intense figure pop. |
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| Author: | Trevor Gore [ Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Liberon finishing oil |
DennisK wrote: You sure about that no grain fill part? I can't see any open pores or texture at all in that little spot of reflection on the side. I thought you were using French polish over top of z-poxy, which is what that looks like, with the intense figure pop. Both definitely no separate pore-fill step on the bodies, just what happens when FP'd. The B/S wood on the first is Wandoo (a Western Australian eucalypt) with very small pores, the second is Australian Blackwood, larger pores, but still quite small. More pics/details here. The necks are both finished with WEST 105/207 with nitro over. The first neck is Queensland Maple (Flindersia Brayleana), (small pores), the second neck is New Guinea Rosewood (Pterocarpus Indicus) which is what I frequently use for necks. It has very large pores and is why necks nearly always get the WEST treatment, regardless of the timber. Oh, and here's a link to more details on the Wandoo guitar. |
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| Author: | roby [ Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Liberon finishing oil |
Trevor,i have done french polish on one guitar,it looked great but marks very easily ,i used de-waxed shellac /alcohol, so what is hard shellac and what does the acetone do? I suspect that Liberon finishing oil is more of wiping varnish than oil ,i got interested in it as i read that Kevin Aram uses it on his guitars and he is a respected builder. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Liberon finishing oil |
Liberon is definitely a wiping varnish. I tried it, but wasn't particularly impressed with it's ease of use. It takes a long time to dry, plus it takes a lot of coats, like Tru-Oil. Personally, if I'm going to use a wiping varnish, I prefer Tru-Oil. Liberon takes a full 6 to 8 hours to dry, Tru-Oil in a well maintained environment will dry in 2 to 3 hours enough to buff back and re-coat up to about 3 or 4 coats a day. Hard Shellac is a modified shellac with added ingredients to make it more durable and less sensitive to alcohol and perspiration. Adding acetone allows for very quick building of the base finish before finally putting the shine on it. You can do that with any shellac mix. It makes it dry almost instantaneously, which allows a bunch of wipe on coats in a day's time. Makes for a very quick build. I once did a one day finish on a guitar using that method, then shined it using regular French polishing techniques. It was great. Don't know why I don't do that all the time - probably because of the fumes. |
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| Author: | roby [ Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Liberon finishing oil |
Thanks Waddy, so hard shellac is a ready made made mix that you can thin with alcohol and or acetone to suit ,am i right? Just googled and found a few modified shellacs available here in the UK ,same thing? |
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| Author: | Trevor Gore [ Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Liberon finishing oil |
What Waddy said. The brand names in Australia are Shines Hard Shellac (what I use, but you won't be able to get it in the UK) and Ubeaut Hard Shellac, which you may be able to get in the UK. There's also Royal Lac (I think it is called), but I think there was some issue with that. There were a few threads on this forum that you might want to search out and read. Not sure if you can get that stuff in the UK, either. Look up azeotropic mixes. They only work properly if the ratio of the solvents is accurate. So you need to know how much alcohol is in the pre-mixed hard shellac. |
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| Author: | roby [ Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Liberon finishing oil |
Thanks for the replies i've found a modified shellac available in the UK from Finneys wood finishes called Finpol extra hard polish,anyone heard of it? |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Liberon finishing oil |
Trevor Gore wrote: There's also Royal Lac (I think it is called), but I think there was some issue with that. I think the only issue with Royal Lac had to do with spraying the finish, vs wiping and or French polishing. I have had no problems with it at all doing the latter. |
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| Author: | rlrhett [ Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Liberon finishing oil |
Never had a problem with French Polish Royal Lac. I'm considering trying Enduro-Var for the backs and sides because it sounds faster to apply, but for sound board and necks Royal Lac is my choice for now. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Shaw [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Liberon finishing oil |
I think Liberon is just a fancy expensive Danish oil blend. Sent from my HTC Desire 626s using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Tue Feb 09, 2016 8:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Liberon finishing oil |
If I'm not mistaken, Liberon is Tung Oil based, where Tru-Oil is Linseed Oil based, among other oils. |
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| Author: | roby [ Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Liberon finishing oil |
Thanks all, i think i will try the Finpol modified shellac on some test peices and see how that goes. |
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