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| Bandsaw blade durability query... http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=47150 |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Bandsaw blade durability query... |
How much resawing can one expect from a new blade? I just bought a very expensive resaw King blade. I used it for 65 cuts, mostly on walnut, though some bubinga as well. It is now too dull to safely use for resawing. Frankly, for a blade at that price point, I had expected a lot longer life before needing to be re sharpened. Is this normal? Are my expectations too high? I know they can be re sharpened up to 5 times, but still it's 50$+ a pop to do so. Any thought from you resaw regulars? Thanks... |
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| Author: | Alaska Splty Woods [ Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
Saw life has a lot of variables. How thick is the material getting cut? What's the moisture content of the material? What's to model of the machine? The tooth spacing of the saw. maybe 65 cuts is a good run. We run 2" X .042" X 22'8" saws with 1" tooth spacing on an 42" Industrial Saw" machine. When cutting wet Sitka block 10" wide into tops, I pull the saw after 100 cuts, which is about 30 sets of guitar tops, trims, correction wedges etc. Most saws can be resharpened. We have our own sharpening and setting equipment. But most saw shop will re-sharpen what they sell. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
" though some bubinga as well" 65 cuts doesn't sound too bad for walnut, throw some bubinga into the mix and it sounds like you did O.K. Cutting through 9 inches of wood 2 feet long is a lot harder on the blade than cutting through 1 inch of wood 18 ft long. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
I guess I just need to adjust my expectations then... Though it seems maybe dropping 40$ on a Woodslicer might be a better idea than 250$ on a Resaw King. |
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| Author: | JeffD [ Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
meddlingfool wrote: I guess I just need to adjust my expectations then... Though it seems maybe dropping 40$ on a Woodslicer might be a better idea than 250$ on a Resaw King. No, you can try, but I think you'll be even more disappointed. Wood slicers cut very nice for a very short amount of time. By the time you really get into a good groove re-sawing they're just about dull. The RSK's are nice blades and last a while, but cut painfully slow through hardwoods, (at least for me). I'm running Lenox BiMetal blades right now and they seem to be a happy medium for me. They cut faster, (lower tooth count), than the RSK's, last longer then the Woodslicers and pricing is pretty reasonable. Admittedly I don't need the ultra smooth cuts of either of the other 2 blades. IIRC the BiMetal for my saw was between $70-$80. FWIW most everything I cut is hardwood with maple being the most predominant and then various other species as needed. good luck, Jeff |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
How short a time I wonder? |
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| Author: | DannyV [ Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
It's all about the yield Ed, all about the yield. haha For cutting back and sides that's about what I got.......after having to send it back at my cost to be resharpened from new. Mine needs to be sent back again and that's about the same amount of use. I keep a Lennox blade in mine and save the Woodmaster for the good stuff. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
I think you got a good yield. Send in for sharpening. Ask Bob at RC Tonewoods. I think he uses them too. I like mine, but I don't tax it like you do |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
Hmm, good to know. So, a 250$ blade sharpened 5x at 50+$ a pop = 500.00 Let's say 65 cuts till dull. 65 x 6 (1 fresh + 5 sharpened) = 390. 500$/390 = 1.28 per cut, more since shipping hasn't been added. dang saw's like a slot machine! I have to confess I expected more cuts before dulling... |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
I will also rethink my decision to use it as a day to day straight cut blade... |
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| Author: | bftobin [ Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
Also depends on the silica content in the wood. Purpleheart and Koa are both really hard on tools. Brent |
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| Author: | bobgramann [ Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
Before I got a bigger saw that could use carbide blades, I used to resaw with the Highland Hardware Wood Slicer blades. They would cut a reasonable distance in softer woods, but 4 feet of Osage Orange would dull them. I could sharpen them myself while they were still on the saw in about ten minutes. Each was good for 3 resharpenings before it became a lost cause. I'm using a Woodmaster CT now. It cuts for a long time before it becomes useless. I haven't found anyone who will resharpen it. The vendor told me that by the time the blade gets dull, the band will be fatigued enough that it won't last much longer anyway. For Osage Orange, I put a Trimaster blade on the saw. It has a less aggressive hook angle that works better with the harder woods. These Lenox carbide tipped blades are not cheap, but they seem to be worth the price for me. The only drawback is the kerf width. A bit of my precious wood becomes sawdust. But, I have learned not to be too greedy on the yield. Trying to cut too close to the final dimensions often results in a wasted piece of wood for me. |
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| Author: | klooker [ Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
There has been a lot of controversy surrounding the Resaw King. I have one & have never had much luck with it. Perhaps it's a superior blade when properly set up but I get great results from the Lenox Woodmaster CT, it's easy to set up & I think it also costs less than the R.K. I know that a Woodmaster CT could cut a lot more on my saw than you got out of the R.K on your saw but I use a 19' 6" blade so the wear is spread over a lot of teeth. Walnut cuts like butter and Bubinga is hard as nails but I find it easier than oily woods like Cocobolo & Camatillo. I'm pretty sure that Bob at RC tonewoods prefers the Lenox too but hopefully he'll chime in. Kevin Looker edit: Check out this thread viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=43251&hilit=ziricote edit, edit It looks like you were in on that thread too. |
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| Author: | Bri [ Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
I like the lennox trimaster also, though I have only cut 15 or so guitar sets, it has seen a thousand feet or more of maple, fir, teak, mahogany and ipe in varying thicknesses including some maple at 17". Getting close to wanting replacement. Bob is correct, after time the fatigue on the blade becomes visible, not sure if a sharpening would really be cost effective. I would not count on 5 cycles. A question for the pro bandsaw guys(Brent)- detensioning, how important is this to blade life? My saw can apply a tremendous amount of tension and remembering to release it is not always done. |
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
So... 65 cuts is right at 16 sets. Intuitively that does seem disappointing. Let's do some math. You are right at $5.20/set saw blade cost. Figure $10/board foot wood cost. 50% loss from lumber to finished set. That's $40 wood cost and $5 blade cost per set. 90% of your cost is still wood and the largest opportunity for cost savings is wood cost and yield. Now... If you are willing to sacrifice additional wood yield - you can decrease your per set blade cost by cutting more sets and accepting a lower yield to the sander.. According to my math - that really doesn't make much sense. Your wood will have to cost you less than $1.25/board foot for the saw blade to be your major cost. Thanks |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
I don't expect the blade to be the major cost, but all the costs add up over time. The goal is five accurate slices per inch to yield five sets out of 2" planks for backs, and six sets for sides for bindings/breakage spare... |
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| Author: | phil [ Wed Jan 27, 2016 5:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
Further to John's math, we still haven't taken into account the initial cost of a big re-saw, the time spent sourcing billets, or the time spent swapping blades. For those trying to make a living, time is also money. And for us who are in it for the hobby, this all looks expensive and time consuming enough that you could consider re-sawing another hobby. This is all good info to know. I'll put my time into building rather than sawing. |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Wed Jan 27, 2016 6:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
" for us who are in it for the hobby, this all looks expensive and time consuming" For many of the less dense woods (maple, walnut, mahoganies, cherry, spruce) resawing can be done with a 14 inch bandsaw with a 1/4 inch blade in the off hours you don't feel like building. You don't have to tool up and be super efficient at resawing every species on the planet. Like a wide belt sander, a large resaw bandsaw may not make sense for the casual user. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
If I was doing this as a hobby, I would simply buy sets retail. No waste wood, no box of chocolates surprises. I'm gambling on a modest coat savings over a long time... |
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| Author: | Grant Goltz [ Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
I use a Lennox Woodmaster CT, 1.3 TPI. My 20 inch saw takes a 12' 11" blade, and that runs around $150. Properly set up, it cuts very accurately at 6 slices/inch for sides and 5 for backs. I can easily resaw 250 sets of cocobolo backs on a blade, and then it will still do sides very well. Cuts at least twice as fast as the Trimaster I used to use, and cheaper, too. Far and away the best blade for the money. kerf is about .055". Spectrum Supply seems to have the best price. Grant |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
Thanks Grant, What are your cut side and back thicknesses? |
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| Author: | mcgr40 [ Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
There are just a great many more variables in resawing that you will observe over time. I think mostly you need a lot of experience with the different species. Walnut and mahogany play very nice. Cocobolo, truthfully, perhaps even nicer. You assume because it is harder, you can't get as many slices, but in reality, the oilyness of it or bocote make for very, happy slicing. You need to plan your slicing a bit. I cut some osage this morning with a woodslicer. I like to cut a resinous slice(like the osage), then a slice or two of walnut(it cleans the blade), then another oily bit. I believe I actually cut a slice of cherry,then osage, then sycamore, then walnut, then back to cherry. I actually use a lenox trimaster or a woodlsicer, just depending on what I am planning to cut and how I feel. The trimaster is really good for something extra hard like katalox or ipe. But they do dull. And then they also will stress crack. I think I bought 5 resaw kings from the laguna people after I first bought one(it seemed so lovely). But my experience was really about as yours, a period of good cutting, I think I was resawing cuban mahogany at 12 inches, very nice at first. Eventually dull. Resharpen, but then the blade body is cracking, and heartache ensues. So in the carbide world, I think you need the extra body thickness of a lenox, or the laguna people need to rethink their steel. But maybe the blade manufacturers aren't considering cutting 10 inches of katalox. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
Will the Lenox blades run on 14" wheels? |
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| Author: | mcgr40 [ Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
There is, I think, a 1/2 wide version, 3tpi version of the trimaster that has an .025 body thickness in iturra design's catalog. I would think you could use that on a 14 inch saw. By 65 cuts do you mean you got about 16 sets? |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bandsaw blade durability query... |
About that... |
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