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Deflection testing guitar tops http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=47095 |
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Author: | B. Howard [ Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:30 am ] |
Post subject: | Deflection testing guitar tops |
For anyone interested here is my latest blog post on how I deflection test my guitar sound boards. Enjoy. http://howardguitars.blogspot.com/2016/01/deflection-testing-of-acoustic-guitar.html |
Author: | Michaeldc [ Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:44 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deflection testing guitar tops |
I'm unable to access your blog. Do I need to signup for it? Thanks, Michael |
Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:17 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deflection testing guitar tops |
I'm encountering similar. |
Author: | jfmckenna [ Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:53 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deflection testing guitar tops |
Me too and I am definitely interested in seeing it. This is something I want to start doing. |
Author: | B. Howard [ Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:01 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deflection testing guitar tops |
Hmmm...... see if this works. http://howardguitars.blogspot.com/2016/01/deflection-testing-of-acoustic-guitar.html |
Author: | Colin North [ Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:09 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deflection testing guitar tops |
Thanks Howard. Ooops- Brian ![]() Love "the" brick. |
Author: | Michaeldc [ Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deflection testing guitar tops |
There we go! Thanks Brian |
Author: | DannyV [ Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:17 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deflection testing guitar tops |
Thanks! Howard the Brick. haha |
Author: | Rodger Knox [ Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:26 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deflection testing guitar tops |
Hey Brian, I've got a brick that looks almost exactly like that one. Mine came from the old Memorial Stadium, did yours? |
Author: | J De Rocher [ Tue Jan 19, 2016 6:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deflection testing guitar tops |
Thanks for posting your method. I haven't seen a description of deflection testing the braced top before. Do you measure/care about the cross grain deflection of the unbraced top? I have a couple questions about the part describing deflection testing of the braced top. "This time readings are taken in both directions and I will gradually shave specific parts of my X bracing to obtain the desired movement in the desired direction. I work the upper section of the X toward the sound hole to adjust inward movement and the lower section of the X to adjust outward movement." By 'both directions", do you mean with and across grain? I'm not clear what you mean by inward and outward movement. |
Author: | B. Howard [ Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:14 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deflection testing guitar tops |
J De Rocher wrote: Thanks for posting your method. I haven't seen a description of deflection testing the braced top before. Do you measure/care about the cross grain deflection of the unbraced top? I have a couple questions about the part describing deflection testing of the braced top. "This time readings are taken in both directions and I will gradually shave specific parts of my X bracing to obtain the desired movement in the desired direction. I work the upper section of the X toward the sound hole to adjust inward movement and the lower section of the X to adjust outward movement." By 'both directions", do you mean with and across grain? I'm not clear what you mean by inward and outward movement. I do not test the cross grain. I figure that having the plate cut to shape helps bring some of that into the measurement. Also if you were to test both ways you will likely find that you will need to choose one or the other to target closely for specified values and since the string tension is along the grain that is what I test and use. On the braced top I am testing both directions meaning one with the braces down as in the photo and then flip so the braces are up and test. I didn't have a pic of testing the other way but will add one from my current build in a few weeks. So with the braces down it is inward movement of the top and I shave the braces on the top of the X by the sound hole to adjust. When I flip it over I am measuring outward movement and am working the braces on the bottom. Hope that celars it up a bit. |
Author: | B. Howard [ Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:17 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deflection testing guitar tops |
Rodger Knox wrote: Hey Brian, I've got a brick that looks almost exactly like that one. Mine came from the old Memorial Stadium, did yours? The brick was dropped off one day by a traveling businessman from another state who came to the area on business regularly and drove by my shop often. He had the brick for a long time and thought I should have it. Not sure where he got it but he was from Ohio. |
Author: | jfmckenna [ Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:23 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deflection testing guitar tops |
So what are you using for a baseline? What I mean to say is when one gets into deflection testing do you just pick an arbitrary weight, in your case a brick, and then use that to obtain data and consistent results from guitar to guitar? Or for some one who is just starting off doing this is there a sort of guide book that says if you use a 1kg weight and get X so and so deflection then so on and on? What are you looking for? What are the numbers? The hard data? OR do you just start doing this, take good notes, find what works and carry on? |
Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:41 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deflection testing guitar tops |
I seem to get more consistent readings if I preweight the top a little, zero the dial and then add weight. Have you noticed anything like that? How much does that brick weigh? |
Author: | kencierp [ Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:57 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deflection testing guitar tops |
Here's a variation of the Roger Siminoff defection fixture -- best scenario is to use a sound board that produces the results that you admire to set readings you want to target. If can also be calibrated to simulate the effect of various string set tensions. http://community.berea.edu/guitarresear ... Tests.html |
Author: | B. Howard [ Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:05 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deflection testing guitar tops |
jfmckenna wrote: So what are you using for a baseline? What I mean to say is when one gets into deflection testing do you just pick an arbitrary weight, in your case a brick, and then use that to obtain data and consistent results from guitar to guitar? Or for some one who is just starting off doing this is there a sort of guide book that says if you use a 1kg weight and get X so and so deflection then so on and on? What are you looking for? What are the numbers? The hard data? OR do you just start doing this, take good notes, find what works and carry on? The problem with deflection testing is that there are no standards whatsoever. There are no guides that I am aware of and I am one of the few to actually share any specifics of the procedures I use. It took me several years to develop a data base and correlate it to my and others impressions of how the guitar sounded so that I could zero in on my sound. I am sure if one wanted you could run modulus of elasticity calculations to determine weight vs. deflection but again you will not find much in the way a target numbers for guitars (as in L/240 like used for roof construction) published that I am aware of. While I am happy to share my procedure and info about how I use it o tune the components I will keep my numbers to myself......Gotta keep a few secrets... |
Author: | B. Howard [ Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:09 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deflection testing guitar tops |
Terence Kennedy wrote: I seem to get more consistent readings if I preweight the top a little, zero the dial and then add weight. Have you noticed anything like that? How much does that brick weigh? Yes. I will put on my cork block and then zero before applying the test weight. I only need to do this on the bare plate. My brick weighs in at a few grams over 2.5 Kilos. |
Author: | jfmckenna [ Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:52 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deflection testing guitar tops |
Ok so it really is all about establishing your own baseline. I get that. I actually like that too. That way we all won't be building the same guitars like they do in the factory and instead we can derive our own methods and procedures. I've built 2 guitars out of the 60+ that I have built over the last 25 years that are, well to brag a bit, just astounding. Not that the rest suck but these two, one a classical the other a steel string, just sound perfect. So I guess I'll take the tops off those, strip the bracing, and do a deflection test ![]() |
Author: | Clay S. [ Sat Jan 07, 2017 12:25 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deflection testing guitar tops |
A number of people have talked about doing deflection testing ( I think Daniel Friederich does it) but there is no standard method so data sets can't readily be shared. It would be nice if a method could be agreed upon and a database be built up. A group effort could add a lot more data points than can be generated by individuals. Just a thought... |
Author: | Alan Carruth [ Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:55 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Deflection testing guitar tops |
'Left Brain Lutherie' by David Hurd goes into deflection testing of tops in detail. He's mostly interested in Classical guitars and ukes, so there's no data on steel strings that I can recall. Still, he gives some useful info. |
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