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Gibson Jumbo, owner sat on it
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=46971		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Gibson Jumbo, owner sat on it
I have in my shop a 20 year old Gibson jumbo that the owner sat on. It's been repaired and amazingly plays well. But cracks still show. Not sure how this was managed. Owner wants a new top. Should I?
Author:  Greg B [ Mon Jan 04, 2016 12:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Jumbo, owner sat on it
Up to you. Matching that burst exactly might be difficult. Looks like a relatively simple celluloid line rosette. Pickguard can probably be reused.

Top shows runout. New one will probably sound better. If you aren't an official Gibson repair person, resale value will be affected.
Author:  B. Howard [ Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Jumbo, owner sat on it
Re-topping is about the most involved repair there is. You will need to pull the neck, which is not the easiest on a gibson. All the binding, bracing and finish work.......

I think a lot of what I actually see could be taken care of with a complete strip and refinish of the top since the concerns at this point are mainly cosmetic anyway.
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Jumbo, owner sat on it
A new top is a big deal and a professional shop may charge north of $1,500 to do this because you are basically rebuilding the guitar. Matching the burst exactly as mentioned is tricky too. See Bob Russells excellent look at the G*bson he retopped recently. If you could add up all of Bob's time that would give you an accurate assessment of what's in store for you.

If it's a labor of love forget all else and give it a try.

PS: Some clients think that their instrument just lost it's virginity if it gets a crack in it.... We at times.... when seemingly less inappropriate.... suggest "hey, now you can enjoy the thing and learn to play it....." I usually keep my comments when someone sits on their guitar to myself..... :roll: :D

So sure go for it but know in advance that it's a pretty big job, bridge removal, rebracing, rebinding, finish work, etc. Mess up the finish on the sides and you fix it or own it.... Lot to consider.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Jumbo, owner sat on it
Quote:
suggest "hey, now you can enjoy the thing and learn to play it....."


You made me smile, Hesh. I had a client years ago - a touring pro - who was always buying and selling guitars. However, he was always afraid to put the first ding in new axes. He would pick out a tool, hand it to me, and I would put a tiny nick or dent somewhere that made no difference to the function of the guitar. Then he was happy as a clam! (No, I didn't charge him)
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Jumbo, owner sat on it
The greatest compliment I can receive is to see one of my guitars come back in a couple of years with fret wear, a bunch of dings, and a scratched up case. Sadly in the boutique guitar world that does not seem to happen much. I get a feeling a lot of those super expensive and wonderful instruments don't get played much.

If the cracks can be aqequately repaired and the guitar set up properly to play well, good neck set, saddle height etc. I'd tend to avoid a retop.
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Jumbo, owner sat on it
Chris Pile wrote:
Quote:
suggest "hey, now you can enjoy the thing and learn to play it....."


You made me smile, Hesh. I had a client years ago - a touring pro - who was always buying and selling guitars. However, he was always afraid to put the first ding in new axes. He would pick out a tool, hand it to me, and I would put a tiny nick or dent somewhere that made no difference to the function of the guitar. Then he was happy as a clam! (No, I didn't charge him)


LOL! Exactly!!! I usually don't really say now you can learn to play the thing but we do say now you can enjoy it!!

You mind letting me know what you think is a fair price for a ding? :) I want to put it on our price list.
Author:  david farmer [ Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Jumbo, owner sat on it
Mike, why does he want to replace the top? If it's for cosmetic reasons, a new top requires a tough to match finish anyway, why not just refinish the original?. If it's for acoustic reasons, can you be sure a new one will be an improvement?
Author:  alan stassforth [ Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Jumbo, owner sat on it
Don't repair it.
Tell him to get a Martin.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Jumbo, owner sat on it
Maybe I wasn't clear. And maybe the pics were less than helpful. He's a big guy. And he sat on it. Fully caved it in. Someone managed to lift it all back up. In person, top looks awful. But, oddly, it sounds good. All the cracks are still there. How this repair was done I don't know yet. I've never seen something like this before. I think he wants it to look right again. But if right is wrong, we not going to do it.
Author:  RusRob [ Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Jumbo, owner sat on it
Hesh wrote:
A new top is a big deal and a professional shop may charge north of $1,500 to do this because you are basically rebuilding the guitar. Matching the burst exactly as mentioned is tricky too. See Bob Russells excellent look at the G*bson he retopped recently. If you could add up all of Bob's time that would give you an accurate assessment of what's in store for you.


Thanks Hesh, That means a lot considering our past... The CF-100 is a labor of love. I couldn't charge a client enough to make money on it.

Mike O'Melia wrote:
Maybe I wasn't clear. And maybe the pics were less than helpful. He's a big guy. And he sat on it. Fully caved it in. Someone managed to lift it all back up. In person, top looks awful. But, oddly, it sounds good. All the cracks are still there. How this repair was done I don't know yet. I've never seen something like this before. I think he wants it to look right again. But if right is wrong, we not going to do it.


If your client wants a new top, willing and capable to pay for it and you have the knowledge to do it then I say go for it. But you need to be prepared to put about 3X the amount of time you think you are going to put into it. Also consider the finishing as well. Gibson burst are not just black sprayed around the edges. They are layered colors with yellow, orange, red, brown and black (in varying degrees depending on the day it was sprayed). But all Gibson bursts are unique to Gibson and if not done correctly stand out as a fake to anyone that knows.

As Hesh suggested you should go over to the Repair section and have a look through my CF-100 Restoration thread. I am doing exactly what you will need to do and I am replacing the top but leaving the sides and back original. This is a bit more extensive than what you would have since I am also un-doing a really bad reapir as well but it will still give you an idea of what will be involved.

But if your client wants to pay and you want a good challenge then I say go for it. Otherwise just repair the cracks the best you can and tell him to trade it in for a new one.
Author:  david farmer [ Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Jumbo, owner sat on it
I hear you. The pics don't look that bad. I'm always amazed at how many instruments have decades of poor repairs, duct tape, popsicle sticks, bondo and bailing wire holding them together yet sound fantastic.
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Jumbo, owner sat on it
david farmer wrote:
I hear you. The pics don't look that bad. I'm always amazed at how many instruments have decades of poor repairs, duct tape, popsicle sticks, bondo and bailing wire holding them together yet sound fantastic.


Me too! We had a guitar up here that was played by John Sebastian for a local gig back in the day to free John Sinclair back when John Lennon was in town too.

This old Martin had a headstock break and the headstock was held together by rope..... about 4"'s of rope winds.

It had lots of cracks, some loose braces, the nut corners were chipped off and it sounded absolutely fantastic!

Go figure..... :?
Author:  Clay S. [ Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Gibson Jumbo, owner sat on it
If the cracks are well fitted and glued you may be able to carefully re-amalgamate and buff the finish to improve its looks. As an amateur, retopping someone else's guitar is something I would leave to the Pros. It could be a real can of worms.
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