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glue on glue bond
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=46683		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  pikolo [ Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:  glue on glue bond
Hello friends!i am having a problem with spruce top..i wqs trying to bend it with heat and then the two tops were separated by the heat....the joint was made with titebond glue...after that i had two options one is throw away the top and the other put glue and force them together and that is what i did....so will the new titebond glue hold the pieces together?
Author:  jfmckenna [ Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: glue on glue bond
I take it this is for the pliage on a Selmer guitar? If so I'm going to say that I know for a fact that fixing it with Titebond will hold for at least 5 years if the guitar is kept under good conditions like mine is ;)

But you do have a third option, saw the top down the middle and rejoin it. Most who do the pliage actually do it that way anyway. IT looks impossible to do but you can actually bend both halves and then join them.

FWIW what I found works for me is to get a thermometer that is used for stove pipes. They have a magnet on them and are designed to stick to stove pipes so that you can monitor how hot your wood stove gets. Anyway what I do is stick one of those to the pipe I am bending the top on and make sure that it stays under the flash point of the glue. Seems to work for me so far.
Author:  Colin North [ Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: glue on glue bond
pikolo wrote:
Hello friends!i am having a problem with spruce top..i wqs trying to bend it with heat and then the two tops were separated by the heat....the joint was made with titebond glue...after that i had two options one is throw away the top and the other put glue and force them together and that is what i did....so will the new titebond glue hold the pieces together?

I would not recommend just putting more glue on at all.
Much better to get a fresh surface on each plate before re-gluing the joint.
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: glue on glue bond
Glue will stick to glue. Until it lets go. I would go with what Colin suggests.

Alex
Author:  DannyV [ Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: glue on glue bond
It has been mentioned here in the past that Titebond doesn't adhere well to itself. Never tested it though.
Author:  pikolo [ Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: glue on glue bond
It is ment for a greek bouzouki....under the top it will have a reinforcement piece of spruce 2mm thick...in the joint....it ia imposible to rejoin the tops cause i have placed the marquetry and rossette allready so will it last with the reinforcement?
Author:  jfmckenna [ Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: glue on glue bond
Like I said in a manor of words. I did it on the first Selmer guitar I built and it so far has been fine for 5 years. The split I got after bending the top was only about 1 inch long and not separated by much. While it was still hot I injected glue into it and clamped it shut and it's been fine ever since. I'm not suggesting this is the right way to solve the problem because it's not but you asked if it will work and that's been my experience with it. If the instrument is for yourself as was mine and not for sale then it kind of changes the way you might think about the fix for it. Selmers BTW also have a spruce patch that runs down the center seam.
Author:  pikolo [ Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: glue on glue bond
Selmers BTW also have a spruce patch that runs down the center seam.
ithink this is the reason it holds...i think i am going to stress it a little bit to see how strong will it be...thanks for the info!I thinkit will hold in this instrument the bridge is pressing down ...also i will finish it with polyurethane ...trying to remove the glue and rejoin it will mean that iw ill have to toss away the top and also the rossette and the marquetry...
Author:  Shaw [ Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: glue on glue bond
My experience is yellow wood glue doesn't stick to itself well at all. Unlike hot hide glue. Now for bending issues with heat titebond 3 holds up quiet well. I have bent wood bindings glued with titebond 3 and it held together fine.

Sent from my SGH-T599 using Tapatalk
Author:  pikolo [ Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: glue on glue bond
i have seen numerous posts on the net from guys saying that it doesnt work and others who say it does work....i am a little bit confused but also i dont think i can fix it....I will wait for the glue to cure and then i will ty to stretch it a little bit to see....i am also preparing some tests for titebond to titebond adheretion...will test it and see....Some folks in another forum say that when you glue wood to wood using presure then there is not much glue in the joint left so they glue loose braces with titebond with no problems...in your experience the pieces you were working on separated?
Author:  pikolo [ Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: glue on glue bond
So i would like to inform everyone that the bond is very strong....i stretches the wood bended it and it holds good!!I have also made itehr tests with titebond on titebond a nd glued them together but we will know more tomorrow when the glue cures!I will let you know !
Author:  pikolo [ Fri Nov 20, 2015 7:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: glue on glue bond
So the test finished and the pieces hold together good...i tried to take them apart but couldnt...use this information if you need it but i am not responsible for anything...this is just something i tried and it worked
Author:  kencierp [ Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: glue on glue bond
PVA glue on glue applications "are not acceptable" in fine wood working -- manufacture's labels clearly state that the adhesives are to be used on bare wood surfaces. Sorry, but make no mistake this is a band-aide and likely to fail long term.

I won't get into the particulars -- but most of the glues need to get into the pores of the material to work at the molecular level.

HHG can be heated and re-bonded to itself, depending on compatibility CA and some epoxies will bond to a sealer, top coat or poorly prepared surfaces.
Author:  Haans [ Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: glue on glue bond
Good luck...
Author:  pikolo [ Fri Nov 20, 2015 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: glue on glue bond
it is a repair i dont want to last ages....it will last good cause it has a patch underneath it !
Author:  Shaw [ Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: glue on glue bond
When it comes to loose braces I have never just reglued it with titebond without cleaning the old glue out. Yeah it's tough but doable. My experience is the glue on glue bond is no where as strong as a fresh joint. I use to do furniture repairs and have seen where owners have tried their own repairs but squirting some glue on old glue and it worked for a while then failed. Glue adhesion isn't just about clamping pressure. It's a combination of a chemical and physical reaction. Some experts which I am not don't even truly know how it works. Now again hot hide glue sticking to itself is a different story. It does well.

Sent from my SGH-T599 using Tapatalk
Author:  pikolo [ Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: glue on glue bond
well if i had a choice i would definately try to remove the glue but the only choice i had was to put more glue in there...the top i am building is like the one i am attaching here....this is agreek bouzouki as you can se in the midle it has a spruce patch that it is 2 mm thick and 2 cm wide ....the top to top is week joint cause of the more glue that i have put in there but the patch is so strong that it will hold them together pretty nicely..!
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