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Finishing with professional automotive products
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=46422		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  RogerC108 [ Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Finishing with professional automotive products
I build electrics, and I've got a project on my bench that calls for a 2-color paint scheme. I usually work with reclaimed wood and do natural wood finishes, so I'm looking to contract out the finishing on this one. There's a local auto body guy who has a good reputation, and he's agreed to tackle it for me.

I was just wondering if anyone here has used professional automotive products to finish a guitar, and if so, what were your results.

thanks
Author:  mcgr40 [ Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing with professional automotive products
I have not done this, but there is a maker nearby that uses house of kolor automotive finishes exclusively- all electrics painted all sorts of colors. They look good.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing with professional automotive products
Body shops treat guitars just like they would a car. They don't care much about plugging holes carefully, and they overspray in areas that don't need overspray (like control and pickup cavities). Spell out your expectations CLEARLY before getting a price from them.
Author:  Rodger Knox [ Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing with professional automotive products
Automotive finishes should be fine for an electric.
Author:  Greg B [ Mon Sep 28, 2015 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing with professional automotive products
HOK stuff should be just fine. Electrics have been finished with auto paint since the beginning.

Besides doing the masking, I'd suggest you grain fill and seal/primer it yourself before sending it out. Auto dudes typically aren't used to painting grainy absorbent materials like wood.
Author:  Droidiphile [ Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing with professional automotive products
Greg B wrote:
HOK stuff should be just fine. Electrics have been finished with auto paint since the beginning.

Besides doing the masking, I'd suggest you grain fill and seal/primer it yourself before sending it out. Auto dudes typically aren't used to painting grainy absorbent materials like wood.

The real advantage of auto paint is the massive hardness when cured under the lights and cooled in a proper booth. This could put the wood at risk, but a solid body is probably going to be okay.

I talked to a friend who has been building electrics for 35 years has done all manner of paint jobs with auto paint, including "swirl" in which you pour multiple colors of paint into a water barrel and dunk the guitar. Then, the heat lamps go on! He says he always builds the bodies from three pieces of wood with alternating grain for reasons of stability, heat included. He does mask off all the cavities after priming. Or, don't use the lights.
Author:  B. Howard [ Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing with professional automotive products
I use PPG auto re-finish materials with great results, but I am not a body shop, I paint guitars for a living and I use proper foundation materials. Wood has way different requirements than metal for prep and adhesion.

As Chris noted, most body shop guys don't do guitars very well. Their buffed finishes are still way too rough for a custom guitar. The pore fill usually sucks.... I see these on a regular basis with the question being if I can fix them and make them look like a guitar should. The answer is usually yes, if I strip and start from bare wood. So be sure you will be getting a job you can put your name on......

Here is a job I did the other year in a flip-flop pearl with the PPG Deltron series. If you want I would be happy to give a quote.

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Author:  RogerC108 [ Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing with professional automotive products
Thanks for the info, everyone. Brian, I've sent you a PM.

Thanks,
Rog
Author:  philosofriend [ Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing with professional automotive products
Priming wood is different than priming metal. Filling pores is not normal automotive work. The safest way would be for you to take the responsibility for getting a smooth coat of primer that is compatible with the finish coats that the auto guy will use. Auto paint systems are continually being improved and most painters like to use all one companies products. If the fellow insists that you use a two-part catalyzed primer see if he wil let you use his supplied air respirator in his booth. Most automotive catalyzed products make people sick and normal respirators do nothing to help.
If the guy says you can use old fashioned acrylic lacquer primer-surfacer it is easier. You can't put this over nitro, but it is similar in how you thin and spray it and protect your lungs. It is grey and can be sanded easily to a smooth surface. You could use it to fill wood pores and sanding scratches. I used it on a guitar for my son with nitro color coats. It stuck well to the bare wood. I wouldn't use it over any wood filler without trying it first on scrap.
If you want amazing trick paint effects, look for a guy in your area who does motorcycle tanks and hot rods.
Author:  Parser [ Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing with professional automotive products
If I remember correctly, PRS basically uses automotive paints for most of their finishes (acrylic urethane). Granted, it's been about 7 years since I worked there...some things are getting foggy...
Author:  RogerC108 [ Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing with professional automotive products
Ok, I just got some pics from the paint guy. I'm pretty excited with how this is turning out. I saw the white coat in person, and he did a phenomenal job with it. No orange peel at all. Not only is he just a few miles down the road from me, but he was able to keep his rate within my parameters. Having him around to do this kind of stuff is really going to open up a lot more doors for what I'm doing with guitars now.

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Before I gave him the body, I sealed it with CA and made sure I was very thorough with my sanding, so he had a good base from which to work.
Author:  dzsmith [ Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing with professional automotive products
Dang, that looks great!
Haven't thought of plugging holes with sticks, I'll give that a try.
Author:  RogerC108 [ Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing with professional automotive products
Just wanted to circle back around to this one to show the finished pics. The paint guy and my pinstripe guy both really did a fantastic job with this one. The client was beyond happy with it.

The 47 is the NCAA record for consecutive wins set by Bud Wilkinson in the '50s.

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This one is cool. The large figures in the back are metal arrow sculptures in front of Will Rogers World Airport. They're 70' tall, and I thought they'd make a cool backdrop to an Oklahoma-themed guitar.
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After reading through all the cautions, I was a bit nervous about having an autobody guy paint it, but this guy was a pro. The paint is smooth and flat. He and I'll be working on more projects together soon I hope.
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing with professional automotive products
Some automotive paints should be fine on electrics.

Acoustics are a very different animal in so much as they need to be capable of expanding and contracting as the thin wood plates will.

Nonetheless Tony Ferguson who is a professional finisher who has done some of mine, Lances, many OLFers in the past too uses automotive cat urethane. I have some of these guitars that are now around 8 - 9 years old and the finish is not only holding up fine it looks very good to my eye. My biggest concern that cat urethane may not amber in time like lacquer will has been relieved a bit in that some of my Ferguson finished guitars are ambering a bit, not a lot, not as much as lacquer but certainly ambering nicely in their own rite.
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