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Would you accept this as master grade?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=46339		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Would you accept this as master grade?
Got this top today. Mixed feelings about it. It was badly packaged and came already broken, which is my job;)

I can technically joint the other edges, but that puts the cleanest part of the top outside the pattern and puts bearclaw in. I would have though that master grade should be completely clear of bearclaw.

As well, there are cracks going through face to face that seem to indicate some pretty horrific runout. In both panels.

Asides from the cracks, would you accept this as master grade? If some of you woodcutters could weigh in, that'd be great. Not sure what the deal is with the diagonal cracks...

Not bought from a sponsor, FWIW, so you can speak clearly:)

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Author:  violinvic [ Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
No!
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
The grain width is too uneven for master grade. The diagonal crack may be wind shakes which is not good. Send it back.
Author:  kencierp [ Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
No way
Author:  jack [ Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
i wouldn't care what it was called, I'd be more concerned how much it cost and how that cost compared to other wood dealers best/better grades...looks as if it was a lousy packing job and probably a good reason to return it
Author:  Goat Rock Ukulele [ Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
Not my definition of master grade.
Author:  A.Hix [ Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
What type of spruce is it? Adi or Carpathian? I would grade that top as 2A if it is one of those spruces, and that is only if it is spot-on quartersawn.
Author:  JSDenvir [ Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
Adirondack? The standards seem to be a lot lower for adi. But just because it's the best you've got, or even the best you've seen for 10 years, I don't think that makes it master grade.

On the other hand, I've been wrong before :-)
Author:  Greg B [ Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
It does seem that when applied to 'magic' wood, all the old standards go out the window.

When I was starting I purchased a few single A tops from various vendors. All were nicer than that, and not broken. Grade inflation?
Author:  A.Hix [ Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
This is one of my adi red spruce tops that I grade as master.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
Woot woot! That's what I was expecting. I think I'll try to return that top.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
Aaron, PM sent...:)
Author:  Jim Watts [ Thu Sep 10, 2015 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
Wow, pretty poor for sure.
Author:  CharlieT [ Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
I would not accept that top as master grade, and I would send the supplier a link to this thread.
Author:  Ken Jones [ Fri Sep 11, 2015 1:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
That runout alone is a dealbreaker.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Author:  meddlingfool [ Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
I'm not absolutely sure it's runout.
Author:  Hesh [ Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
What smell like?

What?

What smell like?

Smells like dog crap to me......

What taste like?

What???

What taste like?

Chomp, chomp, tastes like dog crap to me.....


Good thing we didn't step in it...

Ya, good thing we didn't step in it. :)
Author:  Shane Neifer [ Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
That shake on the edge looks like runout to me. It could be localized to the outside edge, I don't know, but matergrade should be clean and grain spacing should be even. And I agree with Steve's comments on Adi, 2A stuff frequently gets called master, i don't get that either. What species was this set Ed?

Shane
Author:  meddlingfool [ Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
Adi. The guy is replacing it, but I'm not holding my breath. I'm hoping to hear back from Aaron...

Of course it's for the first fancy guitar I've done in years and it's way behind schedule. As it goes...
Author:  Colonial Tonwds [ Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
I too would label that top as a AA quality.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
Thanks. Won't be going back to that well.
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
Run out can vary as you go across the top. I've gotten 'Master' grade tops that were perfect along one side, with run out as bad as you've shown on the other. Often enough the good looking wood is on the high run out side, since it's fairly common for trees to start out growing straight and get more and more twist as they get bigger. A top like that can be made to work by doing a 'heart match' at the join, but then it doesn't look like a 'Master' grade top any more.

IMO 'Master' grade is over rated anyway. It's purely a cosmetic label, with little, if any, relation to how the top will work or sound.
Author:  meddlingfool [ Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
That's true, but for for a 4500$ guitar, customer gets to be picky about aesthetics as well.
Author:  Alaska Splty Woods [ Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
Absolutely not. Looks more like a production grade 1A.
One could see the grain-slope like that, at the extremities of the lower bout, but not at the joining edge were strength is needed, and to not get the "flash" light/dark effect.
Our master Grade sort will have VERY even or slightly graduating texture across the board, very homogenous color and strong medularies. and no apparent run-out at the joining edge.
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Fri Sep 18, 2015 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you accept this as master grade?
Did this ship from Connecticut? Just curious-
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