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| Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the shop http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=46181 |
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the shop |
Over the past nine months or so, the difference between the humidity in my shop/garage and the rest of the house has increased very gradually until it has been consistently 10-15% higher in the shop. I couldn't figure out why. This afternoon I walked in and found a stream of water running across the floor from the corner where the hot water tank is all the way to other end of the garage. It turns out that the tank had been slowly leaking for a long time and dripping onto the top surface of the metal stand under it, which was concave. It was acting as a 2' x 2' evaporation dish for hot water. Up until today the leak rate was too slow to keep up with the evaporation rate so it never overflowed and I never saw water on the floor. I'm pretty sure that explains the higher humidity in the shop than in the house. $2500 later, I think the humidity problem is solved. So, for any of you working in a similar space with a hot water tank in it, something to be aware of. Second lesson: don't keep wood or wood items directly on the floor. |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Sat Aug 15, 2015 2:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
We have a water heater in our shop, but since we're on the 3rd floor of a 100+ year old wooden building ours would just leak in to the law offices on the 2nd floor. Chances are it would get fixed before we noticed the problem. That said, I did have to cancel a canoe trip a few weeks ago when I noticed water streaming from the hot water heater in the basement of my 100+ year old home. Had to pay for that one myself. Guess they're not meant to last 18 years. 
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| Author: | guitarjtb [ Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
David Collins wrote: Guess they're not meant to last 18 years. Whoa, I'd better keep an eye on the one in my house. It is 28 years old! |
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| Author: | doncaparker [ Sat Aug 15, 2015 6:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
According to my plumber, if you don't drain your water heater every year, the crud builds up, which corrodes the bottom. Eventually, all undrained water heaters will leak. Of course, I always forget. |
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| Author: | joe white [ Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
J De Rocher wrote: $2500 later, I think the humidity problem is solved. Okay, I have to ask. $2500 for a new water heater? 
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| Author: | Tom West [ Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
Joe: Me too...................hope mine doesn't go......at that price I'll be boiling water on the stove. Tom |
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| Author: | johnparchem [ Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
I owned a condo where it was mandatory that it was changed out every 10 years. The damage dumping that much water to the unit below was extensive. |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
That price is quite a shock. I replaced mine myself, just a conventional natural gas tank heater, took me about two hours (had to cut back some copper water pipe and replace some of the gas black pipe), and cost me under $600 total. My sister just had hers professionally replaced about 6 months ago, and the price was 6-700. I'm guessing you must have had to have some major infrastructure reworked around the heater (water lines, gas lines, upgrade to current exhaust/ventilation codes) for the price to be that high. That's gotta hurt. |
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| Author: | Pat Foster [ Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
I bristle when I hear of water heater tanks rusting out, which leads to requirements for changing them every so often. Tanks used to be made with stainless. An old house I used to have had one that was at least 50 years old and still going strong. One of the conditions of selling it was to replace it with a new piece of $^*# which I'm sure has rusted through by now. Pat |
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| Author: | Ruby50 [ Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
Also, you have to attend to the anode, a zinc bar that hangs down from a fitting on the top of the unit - regardless of what fuel you use. If you drain 10 gallons out of the bottom of the tank every year and check what is in it, then pull and look at the anode every couple of years, you can make it last forever. It all depends on what is in your water. If you are lucky, it might last forever if you do nothing, if you are unlucky, it can last 4-5 years. A couple of years ago I worked in a big old house/mansion on the Main Line outside of Philadelphia. It had a gas water heater in the basement that must have been 100+ gallons and beautifully enameled in bright blue. On the side was a decal about a foot across that said something like: "winner 1906 world's fair technology award". Still working fine, had had the thermostat replaced in 1959 if you could believe the service ticket stapled to the joist above it, and the last service call was in the 80's. I have seen many boilers (heaters) from the 30' still working, but here is my favorite: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ruby1638/20412805619/in/album-72157656874711489/ I just found this: http://www.lennox.com/about/heritage.asp Enlarge the drawing at the top of the page and it says that heater was invented in 1895!!! Could be original to the house!!! Ed |
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Sat Aug 15, 2015 1:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
$2500 sounds like a tankless, single-pass unit to me. These are great, particularly if placed near where water demand is (think instant hot shower in hotel), but expensive still in the US. I'm not sure why - tankless heaters are pretty standard in Europe now and are usually what you would find in low end apartments. These are often units with non-automatic pilots, though, so I guess there is that. |
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| Author: | Imbler [ Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
Jim Kirby wrote: $2500 sounds like a tankless, single-pass unit to me. These are great, particularly if placed near where water demand is (think instant hot shower in hotel), but expensive still in the US. I'm not sure why - tankless heaters are pretty standard in Europe now and are usually what you would find in low end apartments. These are often units with non-automatic pilots, though, so I guess there is that. I think they aren't popular enough to bring the cost down here because natural gas is so cheap. If you are electric only, they are worth the cost because they heat only when you use water, not to maintain it, Mike |
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| Author: | rlrhett [ Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
Imbler wrote: Jim Kirby wrote: $2500 sounds like a tankless, single-pass unit to me. These are great, particularly if placed near where water demand is (think instant hot shower in hotel), but expensive still in the US. I'm not sure why - tankless heaters are pretty standard in Europe now and are usually what you would find in low end apartments. These are often units with non-automatic pilots, though, so I guess there is that. I think they aren't popular enough to bring the cost down here because natural gas is so cheap. If you are electric only, they are worth the cost because they heat only when you use water, not to maintain it, Mike I have a total of seven, mostly in rental units but two in my home. They cost me under $700 shipped and I have installed them myself. I'm not a plumber, but then again I'm not a luthier either but that hasn't stopped me from making a guitar or two. Not sure where $2500 factors in, but that can't be the reason. He must mean it did $2500 in damage. |
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| Author: | Bob Shanklin [ Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
I went gas tankless 6 years ago. The money I save in not storing hot water, and the savings from the water tank rental I no longer pay, has paid for it. I can run the dishwasher, laundry, and shower at the same time with no heat loss. Well worth the 4 grand. Bob |
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
Bob Shanklin wrote: I went gas tankless 6 years ago. The money I save in not storing hot water, and the savings from the water tank rental I no longer pay, has paid for it. I can run the dishwasher, laundry, and shower at the same time with no heat loss. Well worth the 4 grand. Bob We just replaced most of the utilities in our house a couple of years ago. I tried to do the math for a tankless whole-house heater vs a conventional gas hot water heater tank, and I couldn't get it to work out reasonably, assuming that they don't last any longer than a regular tank. This last assumption could be wrong, though. |
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| Author: | Imbler [ Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
Bob Shanklin wrote: I went gas tankless 6 years ago. The money I save in not storing hot water, and the savings from the water tank rental I no longer pay, has paid for it. I can run the dishwasher, laundry, and shower at the same time with no heat loss. Well worth the 4 grand. Bob Wow, the prices really vary. A poster above gets them for around 700 and I can't imagine installation to be over a few hundred. There must be some size and feature differences in them. Mike |
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| Author: | Bob Shanklin [ Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
I went top of the line Rinnai. Prices are a lot lower now, and very from low line to hi-line models. I was paying 200+ a year for rental, and never got more than 2 years out of a HE gas water tank, and at least 35 a month to heat and store the hot water in the tank. If you flush the tankless once a year with descaler, you should get at least 25 years without having to replace any parts. Nice thing is, you don't replace the unit, just individual parts that are fairly cheap to buy. ps: Those prices are in Canadian dollars, so that is like a buck and a quarter US.   Bob |
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| Author: | Imbler [ Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
Thanks for the info Bob. I -was- curious about the price difference. I probably ought to think about that next time I need a replacement. I get about 15 years out of a tank, but I'm guessing natural gas is bound to get more expensive as coal is regulated out of power generation. Mike |
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| Author: | Jaqaliah [ Sun Aug 16, 2015 10:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
My heater is in the tool/utility room, however I live in west central Missouri. We barrow our summers from the Texas coast and our winter cold from Alberta once Montana, the Dakotas, Nebraska, and Kansas have squeezed all the water out of it. I empathize. |
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| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
Bob, Planning on two years only per tank would certainly shift the equation  Our tank was 21 years old, and we replaced it preemptively as the others from the neighborhood (all installed at the same time) were starting to show up on the sidewalk like unwanted furniture, and I did not want a water disaster in the shop room. The new tank was higher quality than the old one, and it was the new price that I was doing the tank vs tankless calculation on, assuming they would last about the same time. I couldn't get the tankless to win - gas just too cheap. |
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| Author: | dofthesea [ Mon Aug 17, 2015 4:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
Water heaters are like guitars, the prices fluctuate depending on model and capability. You guys crack me me up with your $2,500 seems to high of a price without knowing any details.I've been a building Contractor for 20+ years and have had some pretty unique installations for various products throughout the years. For that matter why should a guitar cost $5-6,000 when you can get one at Guitar Center for $500 haha |
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| Author: | J De Rocher [ Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Cautionary tale for those with hot water heater in the s |
What cracks me up is how everyone's fixated on the $s instead of the actual message: If you have a hot water heater in your shop, make dang sure it's not leaking or about to leak AND don't have materials, jigs, etc. than can be damaged by water in contact with the floor. Don't say you weren't warned. End of story. |
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